Is it all about money?

Do you promote a service because of the money, or do you promote it because you believe it provides value? I personally choose to promote things that provide value to the people I’m recommending it to.

In fact, there are things I’ll recommend to you guys that I don’t make any money from at all. When you are doing it because of the money, you’ll get upset when commission structures change. When you do it because you thing the service is value, it doesn’t matter the price point.

At some point in time during the merge of TimTech we decided it was best to have the same commission structure across all our sites. There was confusion about how much should be earned on what, to the point where we couldn’t even remember which site had what percentage.

So we changed everything to have the same structure: If you are a free member, you get 10% on upgrades. If you are upgraded, you get 30%. Across the board we did this. Some sites that was an increase, other sites a decrease, and some already had that.

Well it seems some people are missing the big picture here and are even calling us greedy for doing this. Like I said, some of our sites the commission %’s went up! So I’m posting here to explain why. Larry even did the math, we average $1,400 in commissions a week. We LOVE doing that!

What shocks me more is a comments implying that we are here for a quick buck and not long term. Hello, I’ve been running StartXchange since 2001. Not many exchanges from that time are still around. Well ILoveHits is, oh but we also own that ;-)

We’re actually quite the opposite. We’re in the process of building a very expensive server cluster so we can continually expand as our traffic goes up without downtime. We’ve had too many “hiccups” with servers and so we are going to be paying the big bucks to make sure they never come back.

The thing I did learn from all this, which I should have learned already, was notification. I’m wondering if it was lack of notification that is upsetting to folks. And I’ve got nothing for that. So much has gone on these months I really think we just didn’t think to do it. But it wasn’t out of ill intentions, we firmly believe the 30/10 ratio is what allows the most growth and longevity of a business.

39 thoughts on “Is it all about money?

  1. Hi Tim
    I don’t promote any thing for money. I promote my programs or sites because I believe in them. I promote those that belong to friends of mine. I do that service, when I can, free of charge. The most valuable asset in this web are your friends. I have them in almost every land. When I came to the web, ages ago, I thought a little different and was out to make money, lots of money, that is true. I did make money and I still do. But over the years I noticed the friendships along the way were priceless and brought me more as any riches ever could. Thumbs up to you Tim. You are in many ways a success. I like reading your blog and what you have to say.


    1. Jay you are correct Friends are a great asset but does having friends pay your bills? No the money you make does do you go to your friends and offer your services for free because they are your friends?
      why are we painting MONEY as be a bad thing its not Money is what make the world go around.
      I promote those that belong to friends of mine. Jay do you do this so your friends make Money ? I believe you do, as I said Money is not bad so why are we painting it as tho it is bad to do things for Money?
      Money Pays your bills.
      Money buys you a new car.
      Money pays for your children to go to collage.
      I think you get my point Money is a Good thing and doing things for Money is even better

      1. Not saying that it’s bad to make money. My concern is sometimes people get wrapped up in the money and promote things they would never promote if there was no money involved. What pains me is when *real people* buy something because they trust someone’s sales pitch, and that something is a scam or not really useful.

        So it takes a balance. Obviously if you are going to promote it hard core, you want to get paid for it. But you should believe in the product or service.

  2. Tim Yes it is all about Money,
    Why do you run a Traffic Exchange? —–>for MONEY.
    Why do you pay a commission to those who refer you clients? —–> MONEY.
    Why does People refer others to produces and services? —-> MONEY
    So let me answer your question yes Tim it is all about Money

  3. I would say it’s a mixture of both value of service / product + money… What matter is what % they own >>> 80% (money) : 20% Product or vice verse or whatever % it is but as far as my small mind goes we all are online spending hours each day to earn living online which is / can be en-cashed with money earned while working hard online….

    Simple message to all readers: Stay focused, honest, dedicate, use and promote good useful products and services and you would see money cashing in automated. Start with basics if you dream to be a PRO


  4. Personally, I am not really money-motivated. Don’t get me wrong… I like money. But having built several businesses over the years, I have learned that if you treat your customers well and give them good value… The money end will take care of itself. Service is key.

    If money is the only motivating factor in why you do something, you end up getting frustrated when the cash does not come as quickly as you had thought it should. If you have a genuine desire to help people and believe in what you are doing, it will show and the money will follow.

  5. Tim, I understand what you are saying about providing a value instead of just trying to make money. It would seem that many people do not realize that money is just a means of making the trade of goods and services easier. If a person focus on the money (only), they will not provide enough focus on providing quality goods or services. One has to be aware that providing quality goods and or services at a reasonable price, will yield plenty of money. It is all about numbers, if you want a lot of money, then it is best to find a quality good or service that you can provide to a large number of people, instead of trying to inflate the price of the goods or service. And, that is what usually happens when one focus on the money instead of the quality of goods and service.

  6. I know exactly what you are talking about Tim, as I am also subscribed to a blog by a guy named Carl. So now I have heard both sides of the story.

    Thanks for explaining why the commission structure changed. I hadn’t actually noticed since I don’t heavily promote the TimTech sites, but simply use them. Sweeva has been one of my favorite places to advertise as it consistently brings me results. I’d be lost without AdKreator as well.

    Changes come as things grow. People should expect that and not be shocked or dismayed by the changes, but simply go with the flow and make adjustments as necessary.

    And no, it shouldn’t be all about the money. You should believe in, enjoy, or find useful whatever you promote. I agree with Gary Calvert’s post above. Thank you.

  7. It’s a combination of both.

    Say I’m an upgraded member at 2 programs that I use, and I believe both of them provide a good service, they’re sustainable and run by good owners. One pays 30% and the other pays 50% commissions. Which one do you think I’m going to spend my time promoting?

    It’s a no-brainer really. I’m in this business to make money and I don’t apologize for that.

  8. I understand what your saying about promoting things because you believe in them or as a favour to the person that owns them because you respect them etc. However I can see why a post was made about it. Just want to give an example here, not saying this is what happened or if this was the reasons but an example.

    If a said person had finished their list of jobs for a week and had say 5 spare hours of work time, they already promote their programs to a high level and they know spending an extra 5 hours on it would probably bring in an extra 35%. They could think, well as that is smaller than promoting someone else’s program that pays say 50% then they will spend the 5 hours doing that, For them to get 50% from that was not just promoting a good program (Yes sweeva is good thats why I use it) but also they could make their time pay best.

    If after that the commissions go down to a level not stated when signed up then you can understand them being a bit upset. They could have made 35% promoting their own stuff a bit more.

    The point mainly is being promised 50% then only getting 30%, the point about giving notice, yes that should have been done, in fact if you had mailed all timtech affiliates saying we are moving to a new structure here its 10%/30% across board you probably would have picked up more affiliates than a few you lost.

    Anyway I give that as an example, I myself if you had said you was changing to this at the end of the month etc then fair enough I would have been happy with that. Yes I commented on that blog post this is in reference of because it did seem at the time sneaky, To not tell anyone that was getting 50% on upgrades and sales that they now only get 30% on upgrades and nothing on sales seemed like it was done without notice to make people not take adverts down. That was why I commented.

    After thinking about it I realised its you Tim and knowing you I know you would not intentionally mislead people so for that I apologise. As for taking it out my downline builders and sites etc, Im yet undecided, I do not advise my members to upgrade in a program that it is not of benefit, If they are not going to surf and just buy adverts which is a big bit in my business and also how I help and teach others then I say stay free and just buy. To not get any compensation for their purchases is a bit harsh.

    However nothing taken away I still love advertising at Sweeva and love getting comments on my pages – Hey I have a lot of points, might claim a set of mugs or something :)

    1. Well our goal is to have more people upgrade than others, so that you make more in the long run ;-) So hopefully people will see we do have strategy here!

      And yeah I’m realizing it’s more the notice. We went through a really crazy period of time so it’s all kind of a blur now!

  9. (I posted this on the original blog post but thought it may be relevant)

    One other thing as I like to look at both sides of every coin (You never know when one coin might have two heads) but

    We are all in advertising here, a lot of us in advertising generation. Now what advertising we do not sell that we generate we can use ourselves to promote other peoples products. Now is it a bad thing to maximise the income from that

    Is it wrong to promote something in that spare space that earns 50% ahead of something that pays 30% or is that just good business :)

    1. Steve I think it would be easier to just ask Tim which would you rather have 50% of your efforts or 30% , I think it is a no brainier for Tim. LOL Just saying it don’t make you a bad person for wanting 50%.

      1. No I agree with that, the point we’ve been trying to make is that with 30% vs 50% that leaves 20% more income to hire more support people, better servers, etc to make the whole experience better.

        Since hiring Larry he’s helped countless members who in turn purchased upgrades directly after hanging up the phone.. Without him pitching!

        So would you rather refer people to a company that people don’t get help with, get frustrated, leave quickly, or with one that does as much as possible to keep those people around, upgrading, and making you long term commissions?

        So that’s where my point about the % not being the reason for doing something. Obviously you take it into account, but you also have to account for the company that’s paying you. Are they doing the right things to keep those commissions coming, or are they just making a quick buck?

  10. Hi Tim,

    Thanks for another great post today and I agree with you 110%. I do not promote very many programs myself, but the few I do are because I believe in those programs. It does not have anything at all to do with money, but is does have everything to do with my reputation! I am not going to promote something that I do not believe in and trust because I do not want people to be ripped off and ruin my standing online.

    All these so called “Gurus” that are out there promoting these different programs are doing it because of the big bucks they are making off of people. The programs cost an outrageous amount and do not do what they claim they do. I do not know how these people sleep at night knowing that they beat some poor person out of a lot of their hard earned money. It is really shameful! That is why I try to teach people to do their due diligence and check out the programs and the people that own the programs.

    Personally I would rather make $5 off of a program I trust and believe in because I can then sleep well at night.

    Thanks again Tim…awesome post!

    1. Marilyn am I understanding you correctly when you posted?
      “I do not promote very many programs myself, but the few I do are because I believe in those programs. It does not have anything at all to do with money”
      if I sign up with renamsurf will you upgrade me for FREE since its not about the money?
      I believe it is about the money that is why you have pricing on your website.
      the point here is it is abut the money unless you have more money that you know what to do with, then it may not be about the money.

  11. I believe Tim Tech is one of the smartest group of marketers I have run across. With that said, I think communication with the affiliates could have alleviated some of this problem. (I think you realize that now)

    We are all in business to make money and each individual will have to decide which program are worth their personal support. The % commission structure is a whole other debate.

  12. I promote a business that I am an Ambassador in, because of its value of doing good and making money at the same time. Yes, I make a commission, but, the investment in the long term is priceless, a win win win concept. I would promote and continue to invest in this Company even if I did not make a commission and still make money doing good. It is a Company that I believe in, and can benefit from in the future, or leave to my child and grandchildren.

    If I misspelled something, sorry… :)


  13. Hi Tim,
    You seem to have started a nice debate here, I would say that most of us started in online business’s to make money, no doubt about that, and one day I hope to be making enough money to make this a fulltime career. However along the way to achieving this I have realised that, no it is not ALL about money, It’s great to make some friends too, but even more than that, if you can offer something to someone with no strings attached, you will sometimes get back value that far exceeds your offer. I will give you a quick example of something that happened to me only today. I wanted a banner from a particular Traffic exchange to promote on my website, after checking out the banners in the affiliate toolbox, they did not have the size I required. I spoke to the owner who said he hasn,t got around yet to getting that size made. So I used my Adkreator and one of his banners and made one to the correct size. After putting it on my website, I thought I will send it to the owner and offer to let him use it as well. He wrote back to say he has added it to the affiliate toolbox and upgraded my account to platinum level for life. So for half an hours work I have been rewarded with free traffic for life. The reward I got for my offer far outweighed my effort.
    P.S I love AdKreator

  14. I think it is wrong for anyone to have accused the TimTech group of being greedy or focused on short term profits. There is no group in the traffic exchange community that provides more service or leadership than these folks.

    The debate about money/service motivation has been well aired here so I see no need for me to add to it. The issue, I think, is that we all have to decide for ourselves whether TimTech provides value equal to the money that changes hands.

    For my part, I am giving the team a vote of confidence. Carry on, Tim, this is just a bump in the road.

  15. Very thought provoking Tim and the responses too! When income is usually discussed, I am reminded of the conventional business world, the old MLM Industry, Network Marketing in general, and of course Internet Marketing and that is this: In general with long term sustainable businesses, usually a good measure of success is how many of the members are also enjoying financial success as well. In today’s economic climate, there are a lot of people desperately looking for some short term fix for their economic woes and are easily attracted to the quick fix. Of course we all get caught up in the occasionally, if we stay in the game long enough. Deb and I now see a lot of people now having a chance in success on the Net for various reason, one in particular is the TimTech Business Model and the close and focused team involved. There are too many benefits to cover all here but one in particular that we have notice over the last couple of months is something as simple as drawings for flip cams. That now allows a lot of people who have won them to now start experimenting with their abilities to make videos and even more begin to brand themselves. The raising and lowering the commission structures for the different tools of TimTech was not a big deal simply because for us to build and think long term, You Guys have to be around Long Term. Therefore, we can comfortably look to a long term future and more importantly recommend CTP and the tools of the trade to friends, family, and even the Newest Internet Marketer.
    We salute you guys and gals!
    Sam and Deb

  16. Whatever is promoted in any advertising media, feel happy its a credible product from credible owner/s worth letting others know about

    Else you could lose your reputation and potentential signups (from “Once Bitten Twice Shy”) people in your downline/s

    Plenty of c**p sites are advertised every day! Usually by members new to Internet Marketing. They give up fast usually out of pocket!
    No qualms about the new commission set up either. Only seen 1 blog muttering about JV (whats that?)

    Wish you luck with the new server setup Tim, August was a horrible month for downtime for both owners and advertisiers

  17. Hello Tim –

    I think your last paragraph is the key point to what has caused push back from a couple of your bigger promoters. I think the ball was dropped in the lack of communicating the changes initially as well as in response to subsequent negative comments across the blogosphere.

    I personally would not call you greedy and I support the concept that every business owner has the the right to change their terms of service, compensation structure, etc. as long as it is done with integrity and respect for the members, affiliates, and JV partners… this requires forethought and care.

    As to your initial question as to the why behind what we promote… the answer for me is both. I am an Internet marketer, which means I derive my income to feed my family and pay my mortgage from my online activities. However, I never promote anything that does not meet the specific criteria that I have posted on my blog under my “JV with Me” page. I take issue seriously enough that some time ago I posted my guidelines for review by my readers, followers, and potential promotional partners.

    Tim, you know I consider you guys friends and I am not here to pile on or throw you under the bus. I believe that entrepreneurs are compensated (long-term) primarily for two outcomes. First, for the problems we solve… the bigger the problem solved the bigger the compensation. Second, for the value we provide… the more value you provide the more money you will make. Anything else related to money in my view is not relevant unless you aren’t in business to make money.

    I appreciate your post and your addressing the questions that have come up regarding your compensation plan changes. I hope my comments add value to the conversation and wish you guys continued success.

    Have a blessed day!


  18. Well my website marybirdsinformationplace is a Learning Center for new marketers. I make no money on it.Sometimes people click on my links and join someting or buy them. But I do not have to spend thousands of hours helping people get started with the basics.

    Yes friends are important. List building is the backbone of everyones biz on-line.

    But customer support should be available on EACH website you own! Have a FAQ’s link too. As you answer questions, add another post to your FAQ page to save you time.

    No customer support? I leave.

  19. I believe that if it’s about nothing but money for you, your marketing efforts and overall presentation of the product or service you promote are likely to be less effective than if you’re promoting something you really believe in, are satisfied with, and know can help others because it’s helps YOU.

    To touch on the accusation you encountered (that you were only after a buck, were fly by night, etc.): I think there’s a secret race of antagonists in our society who lurk on the internet looking for things to complain about everywhere they go. They are a special group, in that they don’t need clarity, facts, or any insight at all to make a decision against a website or admin. I call them The Stinky-Poo’s, but naming them is the only honor I will bestow upon this menacing alien race. Don’t pay them any mind and whatever you do — don’t feed them after midnight!

  20. Hey Tim,
    This is a very interesting topic and a wonderful study in the ramifications of disregarding the principles of organizational justice.

    It appears from what you’ve shared, TimTech’s actions undermined the psychological contract in place with some of its affiliates when the commission structures of the TimTech businesses changed.

    Basically, I think you are correct when you say that it is about the lack of communication (interactional justice). But it is also about the expectations that were in place prior to the change.

    Affiliates put in a certain amount of effort expecting a certain reward for their efforts (distributive justice). When the rules changed, those expectations were violated. So, in that since it is definitely about the money because the money was the value assigned to the expectation.

    Business owners absolutely have the option to change whatever they deem necessary to enhance their business.

    Unfortunately, in a business that is member supported and member driven, these decisions are not made in a vacuum. What is best for the business may not, in fact, be an exchange the members feel is an equitable one for the effort they have invested.

    In the best circumstances, it is difficult to convince someone to accept less pay for the same effort. When the cut occurs without warning or explanation, depending on the level of commitment of the member, many facets of the leader- member relationship may be compromised.

    In the short-term, it is not surprising that your collective honesty and motives have been called into question considering what you described. In your favor, at least you have a long history as reputable business owners.

    As in all things, this, too, shall pass.

    It is fascinating to observe the theory in action.
    Thanks for sharing.

    1. Kara,


      You are NOT distracted by “off-subject” ramblings.

      You have a gift for maintaining focus on the SOUL of a situation…

      You are also able to “walk a mile” in the shoes of others.


      (wish you had written this on my blog… lol)

      Carl Bailey

  21. Hello Tim,

    I’m glad you brought that up! I for one, am glad for the friends, experience and help I have received since I have been in this internet business. I knew nothing and still probably would know nothing without their advice. But, I am in this marketing world trying to earn a living. I don’t want millions of dollars, I would just like to be able to pay my bills and live comfortably! There are millions of programs out there, and you really can’t go by what people say. Most of the time you don’t know, until you get in the program and learn the ins and outs of it. I started on the internet with World Profit and while it may be great, I put a lot of money into it with no results, so I moved on. I ran across the Click Track Profit site back in Dec 2010, but didn’t join until recently. I already have 4 in my downline and can’t wait to upgrade! But, there’s the rub! I have no money to upgrade, so I have to struggle through each of my sites until that happens. I’m unemployed and patiently waiting for the damn to break! Thank you, to all the friends that have supported me with advice, and training. You too, Tim!

    Kay Renfrow

  22. An interesting thread, and informative.

    I guess it boils down to why we do what we do, and the WHY is different for everyone.

    Of course we’re all here to make money. Would I rather promote a program that pays 50%
    commission over one that pays 30%, if I liked them both. Yes, definitely. But, if I liked
    the program that pays 30% more than I liked the one that pays 50%, then I would prefer
    to make less money. So money is not the driving factor, at least for me.

    I think Henry Ford summed it up nicely:

    “Wealth, like happiness, is never attained when sought after directly. It comes as
    a by-product of providing a useful service.” ~Henry Ford

    Jude Banks

    I guess

  23. Tim I think you are forgetting what separates a business from a hobby. Of course ethics and thus giving an accurate representation of the use value of these things is foremost, but you cannot forget how value is measured in business and exchange . Sure business and hobbies can intersect if we are lucky. However, if you are engaged in business the only way to measure success is with a money profit. There is no way to run a business based on some other intangible value. Of course value is important, but money is the only common and universally acceptable way for society to measure the value of commence, and you are of course promoting commerce and marketing here. What you are actually talking about is value in use, and yes it is separate from the money value, but yet if you want to promote it does not seem right to downplay the exchange money value, when you are clearly profiting from it.

    “The word value, it is to be observed, has two different meanings, and sometimes expresses the utility of some particular object, and sometimes the power of purchasing other goods which the possession of that object conveys. The one may be called `value in use’; the other, `value in exchange.’ The things which have the greatest value in use have frequently little or no value in exchange; and, on the contrary, those which have the greatest value in exchange have frequently little or no value in use. Nothing is more useful than water: but it will purchase scarce anything; scarce anything can be had in exchange for it. A diamond, on the contrary, has scarce any value in use; but a very great quantity of other goods may frequently be had in exchange for it….

    But though labour be the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities, it is not that by which their value is commonly estimated. It is of difficult to ascertain the proportion between two different quantities of labour. The time spent in two different sorts of work will not always alone determine this proportion. The different degrees of hardship endured, and of ingenuity exercised, must likewise be taken into account. There may be more labour in an hour’s hard work than in two hours’ easy business; or in an hour’s application to a trade which it cost ten years’ labour to learn, than in a month’s industry at an ordinary and obvious employment. But it is not easy to find any accurate measure either of hardship or ingenuity. In exchanging, indeed, the different productions of different sorts of labour for one another, some allowance is commonly made for both. It is adjusted, however, not by any accurate measure, but by the higgling and bargaining of the market, according to that sort of rough equality which, though not exact, is sufficient for carrying on the business of common life.

    Every commodity, besides, is more frequently exchanged for, and thereby compared with, other commodities than with labour. It is more natural, therefore, to estimate its exchangeable value by the quantity of some other commodity than by that of the labour which it can purchase. The greater part of people, too, understand better what is meant by a quantity of a particular commodity than by a quantity of labour. The one is a plain palpable object; the other an abstract notion, which, though it can be made sufficiently intelligible, is not altogether so natural and obvious.

    But when barter ceases, and money has become the common instrument of commerce, every particular commodity is more frequently exchanged for money than for any other commodity. The butcher seldom carries his beef or his mutton to the baker, or the brewer, in order to exchange them for bread or for beer; but he carries them to the market, where he exchanges them for money, and afterwards exchanges that money for bread and for beer. The quantity of money which he gets for them regulates, too, the quantity of bread and beer which he can afterwards purchase. It is more natural and obvious to him, therefore, to estimate their value by the quantity of money, the commodity for which he immediately exchanges them, than by that of bread and beer, the commodities for which he can exchange them only by the intervention of another commodity; and rather to say that his butcher’s meat is worth threepence or fourpence a pound, than that it is worth three or four pounds of bread, or three or four quarts of small beer. Hence it comes to pass that the exchangeable value of every commodity is more frequently estimated by the quantity of money, than by the quantity either of labour or of any other commodity which can be had in exchange for it.”

    Wealth of Nations (Adam Smith)

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