Smiley’s Rants
It seems periodically Vern from Smiley Traffic will start ranting about something and hit on the nerves of others. And it seems lately the target has been Jon Olson and Robert Puddy. Well I wanted to get your thoughts on all this.
I’ve been working and interacting with both Robert and Jon for years, and both have been very helpful. I’ve never felt there was a “clic” or exclusive thing about them. In fact, I’ve been in the SWAT conferences for weeks now where I’ve received great advice from both of them which has actually helped my business!
So what do I do with all this? Do I ban his exchange and services until he stops the personal attacks? Or do I give you the freedom to advertise whatever you want? Or do you even care if I ban his site? Do you even use it?
I’m interested in what YOU have to say about this! If you have a blog, write your thoughts and link to this post for a trackback! If you don’t, just post your comments below!
In case you don’t get the emails, here are the last 3 sent out. july2 – july5 – july13
The last email is the biggest one.. Banning all associated programs with Dan Smith.. Defending pyramid schemes.. And of course the personal attacks on Jon and Robert..
Edit: july17 – Additional email with false claims about this very blog!
It’s all a bit crazy to me. It seems as if Vern is getting what he wants which is attention. Not only is the forum talking about it but now on blogs too.
I would love to hear what members of his exchange think about these ramblings of his.
Do they even read them?
If so do they buy into his victim story?
I have dealt with Robert and Jon for a couple of years now too and they have been a huge influence and help in my business.
I learned early on to not take advice from someone unless they are in a better position than I am.
There is no “clic” just a bunch of dedicated owners that are passionate about their business.
To have someone come in as a hobiest and spout off about stuff he knows nothing about is insulting.
But to then have him defend the very things that almost destroyed traffic exchanges is ludicrous.
Banning his site will just feed his perception of the “click” but then again why should we even care about his altered ( and often inebriated ) perception?
Vern can get the attention required to have him banned. He thrives on being negative and is no better than the illegal programs he seems to be fond of. I have hobby sites, that doesn’t make it appropriate for me to attack others in the same fields as me – regardless of whether I agree with them or not.
There is nothing to respect about Vern. No design sense. No business sense. Not even common sense. He’d even make a horrible scammer, because he’s so busy insulting others instead of making a great “hobby”.
There’s precisely two marketers I feel this strongly about and obviously Vern is one.
Wow that guy really has some deep seeded issues. It’s scary really the hatred and venom that spews from his mouth.
If I were a member of an exchange that put out “newsletters” like that I would quickly remove myself from the program.
I really don’t understand how anyone can read that crap and not feel threatened by his psychotic rants.
Vern is nothing but trouble for this industry. For me the nail in the coffin was his support of HYIP’s, something I am VERY against.
Should be interesting to see the fallout the next few weeks…
Jon
I tried reading through these newsletters – with a bit of a difficulty, to be sure.
The whole debacle seems rather childish, and yes, there appears to be some deep-seated issues there but it’s hard to believe that anyone with a lick of sense could see these as anything but a personal rant and simply take it with a grain of salt.
That being said, I wouldn’t enjoy the venom/negative tone of the newsletter and were I a member, as Jon said, I would probably remove myself from the membership. Just reading the 3 was a total ‘energy suck’ for me.
Ban his exchange? Not sure if following in his footsteps is the way to go…
That old saying “Methinks he protests too much” comes to mind – and works both ways.
Tough call, Tim.
Gina Weisss lastest blog post..Win credits, impressions, and cash
I dont think banning smileytraffic is the right answer.
So what IS the right answer then “Chris Smith”??
Jon Atwoods lastest blog post..Help Save The Wolves
Hello Tim,
I am a recently subscribed member of your news letter. I am enjoying the interviews with surf owners. As for the matter of Vern, I do not believe in bans. I think they just play into the hands of those banned. I, as an adult will decide for myself what I will look at or not.
I choose not to listen to ranks, never have, never will, who has the time for it.
Right here right now, as I write it is a beautiful morning of amazing proportions, which I am enjoying to its utmost well away from the negative rantings of people who have not yet discovered who they really are.
Nick
I think those newsletters are too childish and self-absorbed. The comments are aimed purely in a spiteful way at Mr. Olson and Mr. Puddy and particularly Dan Smith.
My advice would be to ban smileytraffic.com. I certainly will be doing that at both of my exchanges.
Mike
I think banning his exchange only punishes his members, who aren’t responsible for his actions.
He is definately disturbed and as more people see that, he is likely to lose membership and hopefully go away.
Hi
There is a click with the traffic owners,I have never seen you guys on the forms and when i send in a email I never get an email back,but I think the answer is to just not let him get to you.If you ban him that will just egg him on,so I think what you can do is just not read his emails and do not use his TE.
David Mosley
I am a member of Smileytraffic and I do not think it is fair to ban the TE because of the owner bad-mouthing others. Many of us have worked hard to build up a good downline and some income so banning the TE will definitely hurt us. I am sure there are other ways to ‘wash the man’s mouth’ so that it can be cleaner in future.
Hmm, sounds to me as if someone can’t take the pressure of the “business life” so has reduced himself into making venom filled comments about his competition. It’s surely childish in nature and as the saying goes “if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen”.
Seems my decision to not join smileytraffic, was a good one. I would rather be part of an exchange whose admin cares enough to protect it’s members from scam sites, then be a member of one, where it’s admin allows anything and allows the beginner to be scammed until they are sucked dry of every penny.
I’ve never spoken with Mr. Puddy, Mr. Olson, or those whom Vern has so venomously attacked, but have heard nothing but good about these men, who have taken time out of their busy life to help others get their business going or to help others who wish to start a well-to-do exchange. I don’t think of them as a “clic” but as a network of professionals, who care.
As far as banning smileytraffic, that’s a decision that you will have to take into much consideration from your own perception of things Tim. Yeah it may only fuel Vern’s hostilities if you do ban his traffic exchange, but well if he can’t handle it, than he truly needs to find another “hobby”.
I read the letters with interest, and while Verns views are a little rambling I cant see a reason for banning his site, He obviously feels he has been treated badly and is lashing out,
The fact that he has built smileytraffic to a substantial size must mean that he is doing something right, and even if you dont like the style of the site he must be give credit for that.
I don’t know about banning his site, but if I were a member there and received a newsletter like the jumbled, hateful mess I just read, I would hightail it right out of there and not look back. He says he doesn’t dictate to his members but by claiming to ban Jon and Robert related things and by bashing them publicly in his newsletters, isn’t he doing just that? We are strict at TCH to ensure quality, targeted traffic for our members. I don’t see this as dictatorship but good business practice. Hmmm, it’s all very ummm odd.
Tim:
I’m a member of Smiley Traffic, as well as AKH, Jon Olsen’s sites, and Dan Smith’s sites (as well as Start Exchange). ALL have very positive features to offer traffic exchange users. I look forward to continue my activity on all, as they are integral parts of my advertising! I do read Vern’s newsletters — and have found them to provide a “different” outlook to the industry. I would not recommend banning him … I agree with several statements above on this. Besides — Vern would probably drop Start Exchange from Smiley’s downline builder!!?? (lol)
I am not a member of SmileyTraffic, but I have been around the forums for a while and have seen some of the ‘discussions’ over the years :)
I do not think that either side is 100% blameless, nor is either side 100% culpable. There are points of view that encompass some aspects of both camps positions.
I accept I often fly in the face of the ‘accepted wisdom’ of Jon, Robert, and the others – this is because I believe some of their ideas to be either ill-conceived or out-dated HOWEVER I have always granted them the courtesy of having their point of view, and expressing my disagreement in as polite a manner as possible; and they have done me likewise.
I would not advocate banning smileytraffic because it will create a martyr out of Vern – the best offence is silence, just ignore him and his rants. If you feel that strongly, you can always refuse his money and not sell advertising/upgrades to him ;)
Richard
I have to say, that I to, have been a member of Smiley for sometime now, you could say from the beginning, user id#17!
Over the years, I have had success with his website, but this has been falling. Success meaning, referrals into other programs and he has helped me in a few different area’s.
Since he has been “bad mouthing” other people in his news letters, I am finding it hard to get the results I once did.
I don’t agree with what he is saying in his news letters, everyone can and will make their own oppion. I believe that what ever “venum” is spit at anyone or group of people only comes back to haunt you later.
Do I think you should ban him? I feel as others, why fall into that categorie!
I think this is a hard decision that you will have to make Tim, and no matter what anyone else says, you will have to live with disicion.
Liz
P.S. Have fun and enjoy those babies, they won’t stay small for very long, as you will notice the small hand prints disappear as the years slip by!
I have known Vern for quite sometime, though I don’t necessarily agree with his methods by ranting to his members, he is allowed an opinion just like the rest of us. He has gotten what he was looking for, and that was attention. We all add opinions to our newsletters in some fashion or another… to ban his site only puts you at his level, and as has been stated hurts his members…
DA
This issue is between Jon,Puddy and vern. Do ban his site because he is mad at someone else, its just to stupid.
If the exchange owners are starting to ban each others exchanges, then this industry have lost.
Kjell
While he had a few valid points, it was obvious that he was bitter about something that happened and had trouble putting it in perspective.
I think banning the website because you don’t agree with the owners opinions would be a bit of an over-reaction. You might want to take into account his latest comments:
“I’m glad to say the Puddy saga is pretty much over! From my standpoint anyway … I got it all off my chest! Did I go a little off the deep-end, yeah, I guess so, but I feel better!”
I have been an upgraded member at about 25 traffic exchanges for the past 6 months or so and being a paid customer at some of the mentioned sites it bothers me that ANY TE owner would ban a site due to his/her personal feelings instead of letting customers decide for themselves.
I have only recently downgraded at all of Jon Olson’s sites. I was top upgrade at all of them. Same with Puddy, I left his sites when he bashed my 1 and only post at “the” forum.
I have always respected some of the TE owners mentioned in the last newsletter but will never be a paid member of any site that only thinks about the owner and not the members. One of the vary reasons I like startxchange, seems like members get to voice their opinion on almost everything that is done.
lol.. and they do voice their opionions!!
Well! As you will have read in Smiley’s latest email, TrafficBunnies is amongst the list of the TE’s that have banned his sites.
I did not make this decision lightly. I hate banning sites – but really have done what I think is best for my members and traffic exchanges in general.
One thing I have to say.. his last email was one of the nicest emails I have read in A LONG TIME! So what we have done might have been good for him, I really hope so! I hope that he can get back to being more ’smiley’ and less angry.
I know that my decision to ban Smiley might upset a few members of the bunnies, and I apologise to you – but I have to choose the decision that I think is best. Whilst I appreciate your comments here on the blog – people who are saying that we shouldn’t ban him – BUT, I am checking my stats.. and here they are:
Out of 14,000+ URL’s at Trafficbunnies
12 of those were Smiley referral URL’s.
Out of those 12 URL’s only ONE had credits assigned – but.. those credits had been paused because the member who had them assigned had not logged in to my site for around 6 months.
I know – everyone is very much against censorship, but I am even more against being agressive and abusive in a public setting, week after week – against people who have done nothing but bend over backwards to help me develop my business.
If my banning him, puts a stop to these vicious and hurtful emails, and this effects a massive ZERO people who are promoting on my site? Well.. my decision was made easier.
I hope you guys understand. It was a tough call to make – but I have made it, and feel ok about it ;)
Cindy
You should not sink to his level. I believe people should be allowed to promote anything they want as long as it is not hurting anyone. While joining SmileyTraffic may not be worth the drama mails, it is not going to hurt anyone.
Vern is obviously (IMHO) a whack job. I personally don’t care for his emails, but I already have referrals there, and free traffic is free traffic.
In time he will be his own undoing. He has already insulted and alienated so many people, that it’s just a matter of time before he cuts himself off from everyone.
I actually look forward to Vern’s newsletter. He obviously has some personal issues with Puddy and Olsen.
But its a fun read. As far as banning sites I wouldn’t like it if Smiley banned other owners exchanges or if other exchanges banned Smiley.
Ted
I think that Robert is totally wrong to insist upon traffic exchange owners banning Smiley Traffic.
Robert is behaving like a spoiled brat and ditto for Jon Olsen.
I am a member of Smiley Traffic but I am not active and I could not care less about his newsletters.
Insisting that other owners have to ban the site or not deal with Puddy is behaving in a monopolistic fashion and dare I say it is also being dictatorial. Personally, I would not do business with someone who wants to dictate to people in this fashion. It is not healthy in the slightest.
Never been a fan of his and I’m slandered in one of his latest newsletters but I don’t think he should be banned. Everyone has their right to their opinion. I was banned at NetMarketingForum for stating my opinions that didn’t always agree with the opinions of the rest of NMF and I know how bad the ban hurt me and my business which was just starting up and I had a section at NMF.
It is wrong to ban anyone just because they do not agree with their opinion or because they don’t agree with the majority.
My members are very important to me. They are allowed to disagree with me anytime they want to and they do not have to worry about being banned because they disagree with me. Unlike the folks at NMF I will always value the opinion of any one of my members Vern included if he is a member and no one ever has to worry about being banned at Traffic Heroes!
No Tim, Don’t ban Vern or anyone else that has the guts to form their own opinion right or wrong! I would still be allowed to post at NMF if they valued and respected everyones opinion. To do so would bring you down to his level that banned Dan Smith and his programs which are some of the finest programs around!
Funny, I’m still banned and Vern is allowed. Go figure!
To Our Success
Rich Morris
Well there seems to be differences in opinion. Sorry folk, but I love to read Vern’s emails. He has the only exchange (I am a member) that makes me feel like I am a truly a part of. I am loyal to him (YES!). I get a kick out of him outting all the back room drama… he seems fearless to me. My thoughts on banning… you are the owners so do as you wish. I prefer to be a smileytraffic member because: 1) has the most responsive admin support, 2) he has never banned any website I advertise, and 3) I have been rewarded very nicely when I report bad sites. Got a couple of months upgrade by helping keep his site clean. None of the other exchanges I belong to or have belonged to in the past can say that. Warm regards to Vern!
Wow Tim.. why bother asking for opinions if you feel so strongly about the supposed illegal money scheme angle? Now I’ll have to check all the traffic exchanges I’ve been advertising for and delete them all. Seems like smiley is banning you… you are banning smiley.. so lets just have a banning party. Sorry for the sarcasim.. I still adore you Tim!!
I think it is BS you are banning smiley traffic. It is not up to you to decide what people advertise. I think all you TE owners need to kiss and make up or something. Seems like all of you but Vern like adjusting your egos by banning people. Well listen to this, I dont care if you ban me for what I am saying. I will say what I will say, ban or not….. Not like people can’t get around your bans easy enough.
The great thing about forums is they encourage diverse opinions.
The bad thing about forums is diverse opinions, too often stated in poor taste.
Reading between the lines this ‘problem’ began in a forum, or forums, and has now spread.
All TE owners should keep in mind that they are there to perform a service, allow people to have a place to advertise. This role is not at all about bashing other TE’s, other owners.
The previous responses regarding bans hurting the members is accurate, this ‘collateral damage’ does not help the name of the TE industry at all. Why hurt innocent members over the mudslinging between owners? Owners are not surfers (unless they are just checking out the competition).
Serve the Members, have all the fun you care to bashing each other in your favorite forums, or private communications, but don’t punish your bread and butter (the surfers) just to get even with another TE owner.
For example: I don’t want any part of porn so I don’t surf those sites, my choice. Surfers will choose what TE’s they enjoy, and likewise do not enjoy as it relates to ads displayed and perceived success of their own advertising..
Tim, you asked for opinions, and just like a particular body part everyone has one.
Max
I’m not sure that banning is/was the way to go.
Seems to me banning his site will hurt the members there, as well as your members more than it would him. Although I do understand he would be getting the biggest bite out of the apple, the members are also going to be suffering.
Ban Vern, I guess, would be the more appropriate angle, but not sure it would be as effective…
Something to think on I think…
Ray
To be fair, while I think some good arguments were made against banning, something that is really being missed is that this isn’t just one TE owner arguing with another. This is about one TE owner (Vern) thinking that they can say anything about anyone they disagree with, without responsibility for their own words. Yes, I know it has become a foreign concept, but having “opinions” comes with responsibility. I will have to face the consequences of the words I say here just like Vern will have to deal with the consequences of alienating every other TE owner (and then some). I left SmileyTraffic some odd weeks ago, when I got tired of his “poor, suppressed me” attitude.
By the way, if TE owners did NOT ban problem programs, then TEs would no longer be a viable form of advertising. Why do you think StartXChange is such a clean place to surf?
I have to agree with Chris Smith. You took this poll, the vast majority advocated not banning Smiley, and yet you banned it anyways.
Now that Smiley has banned TrafficSplash, and RoyalSurf, I am likely done there anyways, as those are 2 of my favorites.
I just can’t understand STX banning them. So what if the owner claims to have made money on HYIPs. We are all adults, and should be responsible for our choices of which programs we join.
I dunt know Marie but startxchange is not immune from members sending nasty little buggers and viruses throughout the community. Yeah, it is a clean place to surf if you don’t get smacked with one. I have reported them and publicly posted it in the forum. As far as consequences for the words we say… umm. whom said about Vern….”I really don
What a HUGE I mean HUGE black mark on the industry. I thought forums were for asking questions and getting different points of view. If you don’t like what I say I’m going to get banned. Banning a program for creating nasties is different than banning a program because you don’t like the person.
Ted
wow, Tim did the exact opposite of what I thought he would do. I have always found him to be open minded and customer oriented but I guess I had him figured wrong. Then again, Cindy and Paul surprised me too..
Odd thing is, if I was an owner and was attacked, I would probably do the same thing. Just had these 3 figured wrong.
smileytraffic the best traffic exchange but no DDOS protection. Just comment.
Regards,
SellerandBuyerForum.com
Jon Olson acting like a spoiled brat? How so? Have I mentioned this anywhere? Have I emailed anyone? Have I even said the name Vern in any updates of mine?
So this guy can go on an attack, try to attack my business, my exchanges, threaten to ban my programs and above all that INSIST that his members join HYIP and auto surf scams?
But I’m acting like a spoiled brat? LOL
Anyways, I’m on vacation with my son. Enjoying my time. Vern will get NO PRESS OR PUBLICITY from me on any of my sites, so he is free to continue his onslaught on me. It’s been water off a ducks back for years now.
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..On The Road Again
Don’t ban SmileyTraffic! This whole argument has gotten way out of hand and I think it needs to stop. SmileyTraffic is an excellent exchange and negative people need to realize that right now!
Stephen (Phillips) – Vern was not banned for voicing his opinion. He was banned for threatening me and saying he would report me to Pay Pal for fraud.
There is a lot people do not know about what that guys will send and message you in private.
He plays the victim card a lot but maybe, just maybe if he wouldnt threaten my business, my livelyhood and essentially the way I feed my family, I wouldnt care what he said.
He can spit all the attacks at me he wants, but dont for a second think he was banned for his opinion. He can call me every name in the book if it makes him feel better.
This is about threatening the way I feed my family.
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..On The Road Again
It has nothing to do with SmileyTraffic and everything to do with Smiley.
If you don’t grasp that as the basic premise, your entire line of reasoning is going to be flawed from there.
d
Childish huh
I was the one with most tolose here, i made a simple statement i will not do business with anyone who does business with vern.
I risked losing a whole lot of jv partners and associates but i’m adamant after 2 years of that kind of abuse a stand was called for.
Vern is an evil worm,and most of the stuff he writes is lies and slander or libel which ever is which. i cant be bothered to go the legal route to shut him down,but i can make choices who i do business with thats my choice… I made it
And for those who say its not for owners to decide what people can or cant advertis thats BS we make decisions every day on we allow in our programs.
I repeat I will not ever do business with anyone who does business with that worm…
Everyone makes their own choice after that
Robert
First of all, I have been a member of smileytraffic for almost 5 years now. The way he handles his site is with honesty, assertiveness, & complete reguard for his members & site. I have never known Vern to be dishonest or slanderous to anyone. He does not bite his tongue when he feels like he is being attacked or disrespected. & WHY SHOULD HE ? As far as U, Tim not having any issues with Robert & Jon. Does not mean that they havent in some form attempted to slander smileytraffic. Or Be disrespectful to vern. There are always 2 sides to every story. Now pertaining to banning his site, this Is sheer disrespect for all of his members & there are thousands of us who have been dedicated members to smiley & we all support him NO MATTER what. In fact, The purposes of blogs & public forums is to share & express ones veiws about certain people or topics. & Last time I checked we are ALL intitled to our opinions & have the freedom of speech. This is the main purpose of these forums & blogs. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose to even start a discussion if you cant handle the responses you may get. & Thats my opinion on this matter. As far as smiley goes I will be there Until the end reguardless if it’s banned or not I will supoort Vern Wholeheartedly & completely.
Jon Olson said:(((((So this guy can go on an attack, try to attack my business, my exchanges, threaten to ban my programs and above all that INSIST that his members join HYIP and auto surf scams?)))))
FIRST of all SMILEY DOES NOT insist his members do anything in fact he doesnt even pressure them to upgrade or buy advertising . He simply tells them that its availble if they are interested & respects them & treats them the same reguardless if they buy advertising , upgrade , or join anything or NOT!! SO to say that is a complete LIE!!!!
Well , Smiley’s comments to me after reading what the others are saying about him are no different from his own comments if calling him a worm & accusing him of scamming his members isnt slander as well I dont know what is . So U owners can do what ever u wish but bottomline is all of you who are typing negatively against him are NO better for all ur doing is returning the favor. Reguardless of what you may think.
In fact its obvious that NO ONE has actually read every newsletter or any of smileys forum post. We report fraudulent sites & we make sure that others know which sites not to deal with according to our own experiences. So NO I dont feel as if anyone is the bigger man or women in this situation because all of the comments that are negative about vern maybe be properly worded to avoid them being veiwed as slanderous they R !! & Like I said before VERN DOES NOT bite his tongue He is honest, & upfront & NO HE DOESNT PLAY victim in anything Ive read over the past 5 yrs of being a member. HE PLAYS it honest however unconvential some may think HE DOES. I love reading his newsletters & his opinions simply because Its a NO NONSENSE read with a lil bit of humor mixed in EVERYTIME . wooohooooo u go vern .. Smileytraffic is an exception to the rule & many are mad & it’s ok . Thanks for helping me acheive over 100 referrals Quality page veiws & $$$$ throughout the years. U ROCK
Can anyone tell us how this started? Vern must have a good reason that he did what he did, or he would have never said what he said.
Kjell
Amen msbrat you hit the nail right on the head. But it does not seem to make a difference here what we think. But there are other places we can do where we are treated like human beings. Adios StartXchange!!!!!!
Remember one of my first exchanges with John O.
He gave me some advice and it would have been good advice for most people;) But, I’m not most people and I have even passed on the advice to others;)
I also consider Vern a bit of an E-friend.
Still haven’t read his “rant”. Vern if you read this thanks for the credits. Wish I could surf more!!!
If his rants are off target I hope he appologies and that his appologies are accepted.
Well, I’m off to read the rants if this computer lets me!!!
Oh one more thing. Thanks for the Traffic Tim an all other TE owners I thank you as well;)
Phew! I am glad you found it ’cause I didn’t want to have to write that essay again.. lol
Tim and all… I am just a member and don’t really give a sheet about all the drama. I want to advertise my sites… free or paid member. This is purely nonsense.. cant y’all just ~hugs~ and make up? Just noting the obvious here.. it’s purely business. Feelings get hurt… lies get told.. but life move forward while the bickering continues. Banning any or all TE’s sites is STUPID people. Now everyone say “I’m sorry,” and get on with making money… K?