I may not be an old guy, but I guess I have an Old Fashioned view of traffic exchanges. I still see the point as being an exchange between like-minded small business people. You see my offer, I see yours. We're both small and can't afford huge budgets to advertise to the masses, so we exchange business instead.
What Jon Olson keeps getting vocal about is the cash for surfing trends. It gets bigger every day it seems. Finding ways to increase the dollar value (it's not always cash even if it's called cash) of the prizes given out to make today even more of a great day to surf than the day before.
At some point you really need to step back and ask yourself if you even care about swapping business with the other people in the exchange. Or are you looking only towards yourself and getting that prize. I think many have lost focus on what the whole point is, and as a result more people complain about not getting any results.
Before cash surfing people would sign up to StartXchange with a website in mind to promote. More and more the trend is to simple come surf for the cash prizes. Owners will mention in forums and conferences periodically about odd accounts that accrue large amounts of credits and never use them. Why? They aren't here for the traffic.
It's to the point now that I have "We do not pay members to surf or refer." on the sign up page on StartXchange. And yet people still come into the forum and ask how they get paid for the pages they viewed. The view of traffic exchanges to outsiders is no longer a traffic exchange, but a paid to click. They are one in the same to many.
The awesome thing about all of this, is how StartXchange continues to stay active. It's not as active as it ever was, but without offering cash to surf it continues to perform. This proves that you can do without the cash incentives, and is why I don't understand the need for all these daily promos.
I like doing fun things like everyone else, but it's no longer a big deal when it's every day. It becomes the norm, and then it you have to go on to bigger things to make it a big deal. Why not keep it simple?
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I will admit many traffic exchanges have gotten away what they were intended for. Cash surf seems to be driving many traffic exchanges, but for me I would forgo cash prizes for better conversion rates any day. I surf exchanges that have proven to bring me good conversion rates rather than ones who offer the greatest amount of cash surfing. I will agree with you though Tim keeping it simple is best.
Surfing for cash leads to lots of problems…remember 12dailypro? The "incentives to surf" should be traffic credits if anything.
Ray
Point made well, Tim.. simple is better!
I surf to see what others are promoting and to get hits to my sites. The incentive has never been a big deal for me as I’ve only been paid by TWO (that’s right TWO lol) manual traffic exchanges in 10 years online (I don’t count the payment from 1Heluva although I suppose I should, and I was also paid once by an autosurf site called Total Rune)
Tim,
I agree with you 100%. Where is the let’s just look at sites exchanges. I’m here to advertise and look at others sites (really I do). I actually look at every ad. I look at what they have to offer, I look for ideas for improving (or in my case actually setting up) splash pages.
I have been on the web for years. I’ve dabbled in this and that but not trying to make a full time living (more of a hobby I guess). I am in the law field and getting ready to take the California Bar in 3 weeks at the ripe old age of 57 (used to be a firefighter). Now I want to increase my presence on the web and find a niche for myself and maybe become an affiiate of some good, HONEST, things.
I will be joining Startexchange, sounds like a good honest TE.
Jim
Well, here is my 2 cents – I don't see the difference in people surfing for cash than just going to a site and team surfing – all these things that you have mentioned can be the same for the team surfers – they are there to get that high number for the day – the final reward – being the top team for the day.
Oh man, don't get me on my soap box again LOL
Yeah, maybe that's the issue right there. It's become the 'norm' and with that, comes the same old same old. Maybe if these things were special and only happened once in a blue moon, it would be much more effective and less damaging?
I would love to see more people show AND surf websites that are NOT for credits but for INFORMATION. It makes the world a smaller place. Perhaps then, people would stop surfing mindlessly to be in a top team or to just get credits but surf to see what is AVAILABLE.
Anne – you have a valid point, a person can only view one splash page so many times before it becomes B O R E D O M. Yet we all surf and sometimes I can count 15 of the same page and quit surfing for the day. I’m not into the surf for cash or prizes and I seldom play the games.
Maybe the answer is a reward for surfing activity.
I agree with you on some points. What I do like about some paying sites is when they reward for activity and not just random bonus pages. This way you are insuring activity on the site to get paid. For example – EasyHits4u rewards you with 30cents after surfing 1000 sites – not great money but some incentive is nice.
Great post Tim. I don’t think there is enough said about this topic. It has gotten worse over the years.
People need to start focusing on the long term goals. If all you focus on is that 30 cents or winning that 1 dollar that is all you will ever get. Find a business you can get passionate about and focus on making it great. Look at the pages in the exchanges to get ideas on splash/squeeze page designs. You can learn alot just by doing that.
Contests are nice “Once In A While”, but not when it’s turning Traffic Exchanges into Paid to Clicks.
Well, that is my 2 cents.
Okay Tim ( and Jon), your point is quite valid concerning surfing to see advertising and exchange traffic. Many of us were in PTC before TE’s and some of the older TE’s still enjoy 20-30 second timers although most have abandoned that idea. My real problem with most TE’s is that the advertising is JUNK. If someone has a well-conceived idea or an actual plan then, sure, I want to see it. If someone made their own splash page, then bully for them.
You and Jon and other TE admins are in a position to show us the good stuff ( like Sweeva) and eradicate the political, religious, and sexual ads, etc. we are exposed to. I’m not saying make yourself Gods, but just be more discerning before running “any old ad”.
When I surf I have a plan, where I surf is part of that plan, and when I surf if I get cash for doing it it may be to upgrade at your website. There are 1000+ TE’s I can choose from and if you see my name associated with your website it is because you provide me a great product or service. Let’s all have fun. :)
Must admit I don’t really see a problem. Those who want to surf until their eyes bleed to earn a few pennies can use exchanges that offer cash. Those who want to trade page views in line with the original TE concept can use exchanges that don’t offer cash – and there are still plenty to choose from.
Maybe activity has dropped off slightly at the non-cash TE’s but is this really bad? The people you have ‘lost’ have proved they were not serious business people anyway.
Personally I have never thought of EasyHits and Smiley Traffic for example as cash surfs, they just offer a small reward for effort. OK, maybe they encourage people to surf longer than they might otherwise and you could argue that it somehow wastes credits but I think the wastage is small in comparison to sites that actively encourage cash surfing for it’s own sake.
To be honest, most of the ‘cash’ sites I see are fairly small and will probably bankrupt themselves before long so the ‘problem’ will no doubt resolve itself given time.
I also have to say that my intuition tells me this is a criticism of David Foley but nobody has the guts to say it. After all it was Mr Foley who really kick-started this serious cash surfing trend (as well as spamming us to death in the process). It was also Mr Foley who took on the runing of Swat Traffic and I don’t remember Mr Olson complaining about the increased activity at the time. Fine, Jon probably regrets making the decision to go the cash rewards route, hindsight is a wonderful thing, so I’ve no wish to start an argument on that topic but I’m sure it led to some animosity which is why I question where this ‘rant’ is really aimed.
As I said earlier, I’m sure the whole saga will sort itself out over time, purely on sustainability, so it doesn’t really get me fired up.
Naw, not really aimed at him. In fact I applaud David for being really the guy who started the whole Jackpot thing. Really got people excited and it was innovative. Good on him.
The problem is that everyone copied him. And less innovation happened it was just ‘hey lets give away random cash rewards for surfing’…
This is not at any T.E. directly and heck yes, I’m just as much to blame. I fell for it and did it at SWAT and yup, I didn’t complain that first few months because it was awesome…But then…The real results started to dwindle and trust me, I’m paying for that now.
Hi Tim,
I agree with you 100%. I have been using traffic exchanges for almost
10 years and can see the changes. I have also been an owner and admin
to several traffic exchanges. I have seen what goes on in the back office.
The traffic exchanges started out, as you said, a place where “You
see my site and I see yours”. It was a very good way to advertise!
I would like very much for the exchanges to get back to the basics
and stop all the game playing, super contest for the highest surfer and
paying for the surfing.
I surf one site at a time, so I see what is being advertised. Some
people surf 5 or more at a time and just watch the timers.
Let us get back to the basics and really see what is being advertised.
Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents worth,
Sandy Crawford
Now here is a subject that can get the blood flowing…LOL
I agree with most of the points you have made Tim, this cash surfing is getting way out of hand. It has gotten so bad at my traffic exchange I had to put a blinking headline on the front page telling members they will not earn cash surfing at my traffic exchange.
Although I do have a Weekly and Monthly cash surfing contest, were the top 4 surfers Weekly can win a few dollar or cents, depending on their membership level. The Monthly cash surfing contest pays only the top 3 members, plus the top basic (free) member for the Month can win a life time Gold membership with all the perks that go with it.
How I’m not sure if that is considered surfing for cash, its not like you can earn cash while surfing like a paid to click site. I look at it as a way to give back a little to the members that are loyal and really want to get their sites seen and hopefully get a few sign ups and build a business, a small incentive to help build their business.
I have to be honest when I make this next statement, I think what got all this surfing for cash started was you Tim. Remember when you had the series about how to spot a bad traffic exchange? You really pissed off a lot of owners and made yourself look like you and a few other traffic exchanges owners were trying to corner the traffic exchange market. I know, I have had a lot of owners voice their thoughts on this series to me and what they thought you and 3 other owners were trying to do.
Just because a traffic exchange doesn’t look good or isn’t running a certain traffic exchange script does not make it a bad traffic exchange. There are many traffic exchange out there that look like total crap but do deliver. I know I use most of them myself.
Now as for StartXchange, I am a member and I like it very much and I am not trying to take away anything from your traffic exchange, just making a statement as to what other owners and some of my members have said. I have been a member of StartXchange since 2001 when the late great Doug Williams recommend I join, and will be for years to come.
As Rodney King once said, Why can’t we all just get along.
Now something that really irks me, is when I log into a traffic exchange and I see all the last minute one time offers. Upgrade or buy credits now you will never see this offer again…LOL not until you log in again at least…LOL, but it doesn’t end there, some traffic exchange have a second and third offer. Lame Lame Lame. When you log in you should see one of the members offers, it is their business that needs to be promoted. All the members know that there is an upgrade option and can buy credits if they don’t have time to surf. It is our job as owners to promote our business or get our members to promote it if they want to, so they can earn a commission of their referrals upgrades and purchases, it least I thought so. I do offer cash to members that help promote my 2 traffic exchanges, if you call 25 cent per day/per traffic exchange I see their members page, splash page or banner. I have not seen one of my ads promoted by a member for Months, so I guess that doesn’t work…LOL
Anyways I hope only the best to all members and owners of all traffic exchanges, as a team we all can succeed.
[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ’0 which is not a hashcash value.
I’m baaaack :) Since my comment was accidentally deleted when Intense Debate was “unplugged,” here’s my comment below…
While I’m almost a decade older than you, I’ve been in the Traffic Exchange industry a much shorter time. I actually came from Paid To Click and to me that’s exactly what cash surfing feels like. Traffic Exchange and PTC are really 2 totally different internet realms. Having been active in both, you learn that you have to advertise completely different, the mindset of the view is completely different, even WHAT you can market is completely different.
A pure Traffic Exchange surfer IS here for business opportunities and to learn how to increase their business earnings online. A cash surfer/PTC’er is here to make some cash. Not large amounts of cash, but really just here for the cash.
I know it’s a huge debate here in the TE world now, but to me it’s really a simple solution. Stop looking at cash surfing TE’s as TE’s because in all honesty, they really are not. They are a different form of PTC site. Instead of viewing ads from a dashboard, you’re viewing ads in a surfbar.
You will not get the results you’re wanting from these exchanges if you’re looking for TE mindset people. On the other hand, if you’re wanting to rotate pages and gain some referrals in PTC programs, other cash surf TE’s… you’ll probably have great results.
Track your results, continue to surf and advertise in the Traffic Exchanges that give you the results you want, and leave the cash surfing to the PTC’ers where it belongs.
Great post Tim!
After a while, those of us who really want to promote a business will begin avoiding exchanges that focus so much on cash for surfing, because we know the viewers aren’t viewing with interest.
You hit the nail on the head Tim… Surf 4 Cash exchanges are all about the cash… I have gotten more referrals to my sites on Startxchange then any Surf 4 Cash sites I have tried… If you want to build your business you want people to look at what you are offering not chasing the next cash prize…
Mark
I think that what we’re seeing here is the beginning of a divide between serious advertising sites and cash surfing sites. I remember when auto surfing for cash just went ballistic and everybody lost all sense of reason and that culminated in the 12 dailypro fiasco. Autosurfs hurt TE’s badly for a while and when thy exploded in a screaming mess, legitimate TEs copped a lot of collateral damage but in time recovered the lost ground.
What we’re seeing here now is a similar cycle although the fall won’t be as spectacular.
Maybe it would be a good idea if approved Traffic Exchanges could display an industry seal stating that they don’t cash surf, that they don’t allow warez sites and all forms of cheating will be dealt with harshly. I don’t know, I’m just rambling I think
hahahaha Industry Seal, good one =P One thing we ALL can agree on, is nobody agrees on anything. The number of times industry things have been tried is crazy, but it always ends up in people arguing about what the “rules” should be. The internet is a wild world so nobody can stop anyone from doing anything, that’s why I like these blogs to get people talking about the ideas. Even if we don’t agree, it’s good to talk about these issues.
I agree with Nancy that team- and power-surfing is just as bad. I see people in surf chats talking about the ridiculous amounts of sites they’re surfing while they’re struggling to keep their eyes open, and to me, that’s just as bad as chasing cash.
However, I think the bigger problem is the amount of cheaters that are coming in every day. And like Lynn said, they hit non-cash surfing TEs as well. To me, that’s the biggest problem with lack of results. Some TEs are very strict and dilligent about catching them (and yes, that includes some “cash” TEs), while other TEs don’t do anything about them….and that includes some bigger non-cash TEs as well.
I don’t care whether a TE offers credits, cash, iPods or steak knives….as long as they’re catching the cheaters….that’s what produces better results IMO.
Nice dig, love the iPod reference.
If you for a second think the TE’s that claim to be cheater free are in fact, without abuse….You are in for a surprise.
Every T.E. gets cheated.
You have active admin’s surfing and staying visible within the surfing environment, this will be lowered. Savvy owners surf their TE’s daily to find out the abusive members and get rid of them…Quietly.
I don’t think that was a dig =P
Nope, not a dig at all Jon, and not a reference to your TEs.
You’re right….savvy owners/admins will get rid of the cheaters. I’m talking about the ones who don’t actively stay on top of this.
I am one that builds up a lot of credits in their accounts… Not because I’m surfing for cash (those few pennies really don’t mean anything to me), but I try to keep a reserve at many exchanges in case of something sneaking up on me that I want to promote and don’t really have the time to jump in and do a bunch of surfing.
There have been many changes in the TE industry over the past few years with incentives and contests for surfing plus the lowering of the surf timer for many sites.
The lowering of the timer at so many sites allows you to accumulate a ton of credits in a short amount of time, but, honestly… How good of a look can someone get at your page in under ten seconds. Even if you have an instant loading splash page, its hard to get much of a response if the surf timer is only 5 or 6 seconds.
I limit my use of TEs these days mainly to list building, with an occasional splash page thrown in there for various sites or products. No video, very little text, eye-catching graphics. I want it to load instantly and catch the surfers eye and get them to click through to my main page in under ten seconds…
I do get a bit more creative on Sweeva (and a few other sites), where there is a longer timer, than on most TEs.
There are many problems with TEs that eventually will all work themselves out, I believe. The sites that do produce results will lose members and eventually die away. Those that are continually bringing their members new sign-ups and opt-ins, will continue to grow and flourish.
So much of the TE industry has become a popularity contest. To me, I don’t care where they’re ranked at Hoopla or AF or wherever… I just want results.
If a site with 1500 members gives me good results, I’ll keep using it. If one with 100K members and ranked #1 in one of the popularity contests does not, I’ll drop it. Just give me good results and I (plus most others) will keep coming back.
Wow Tim you old man…
I agree 100% with You. I been talking about this a very long time. People are talking about, where can I surf for 5c/hour instead of where do I get the best traffic I need for my business?
This have gone very far, when I ask ppl: What is your main business and they answer …. huuhhh main business??? … I get the where are you from??? I surf to make some direct buck, cash. I don’t have a main business! … Ok there are ppl who are surfing for theraphy, social thing… same same lol… They are not my target anyway.
I have changed my way of advertising in TE’s a bit because of this. Ok I don’t surf a lot, but anyway… Owners and surfers do what they want of course, but many TE’s last 1,5 – 2 years are more like PTC’s.
It’s not about the traffic it’s about surfing for a lower $/hour then slaves or convicts have… Collecting Cans and sell them makes you a lot more at least in Sweden where you get 10c each for bootles, cans and 20c for big plastic bottles rofl…
Stefan Berg
I agree with Nancy and Jackie O
I want to elaborate a little more on the bigger problem of cheaters
that are coming in every day. We also call them Surf Farmers – what they do, is have others step in for them and surf the TE’s 24/7.
Their pages surfed count is so high, that none of the regular faithful members can compete and win any of the surf contests.
We at our own TE were forced to eliminate them from the contests, so to give our serious surfers a better chance to continue surfing and take the time to look at what is being offered, and put the fun back into surfing.
I am pleased to be able to report,
we have happy members again who enjoy our TE for what is meant to be.
Its sad to see that most of the TE’s I belong to, have the same problem.
When I check their Top Surfer contests and see that all the Surf Farmers are on top,
I don’t even bother to participate. I just surf to keep my sites in rotation, as long as I get results I’ll continue doing so.
On a another note, its hard enough to get our members to surf on a regular basis, so we have to do everything we can, to give them the incentive and I don’t mean cash, but value to have their sites seen by all our members.
There you have my 2 cents worth.
Good post Tim, and thank you for letting us voice our concerns and opinions.
Monika
So how do you label an account a “Surf Farmer”? I’ve had a single member of StartXchange surf 52 hours straight.. While that was a Surfing Marathon, it is possible to surf for long periods of time.
There is an example of what I’m saying – 52 hours straight – how much was this person really seeing or paying attention to the ads in rotation???
Like Jackie said I also have been in these sites and listen to these people that are team surfing and keep their eyes open
I just don’t see the different – that is why you have as many exchanges that you do – each owner has to do what works for them and their members – just that simple.
Ahhh but see, that I think is the fundamental difference in the way people do promote and how they should be promoting.
I want to design my web sites and splash pages so they cannot be ignored. I want to make them memorable so even if someone has been surfing for 52 hours, my sites will stop them dead in their tracks.
I think we go about HOW we promote a lot less than we should. The whole ‘attention grabbing’ with shock and awe is so critical to everyone.
Just observing…Sorry for the interruption =)
Tim and Jon too..LOL
Your both absolutely right and yes Jon we are in the same boat as you we thought it was a great idea at first and jumped on it but it didnt take us long to realize TE are not huge cash drawing businesses and we were giving away more cash then we bring in.
Then on top of that the response rate dropped because people were no longer surfing to see other ads or find new stuff for their biz they were surfing to grab that loose change.
I have been trying to slowly cut back on the cash surfing over the last year or so but I will be honest with both of you its very hard. If I stop offering cash prizes in drawings and such my traffic flow damn near comes to a halt.
I am weeding out cheaters as best I can and talking to my members about using good tools to build their biz. I also remind them as often as I can this is a tit for tat biz, you look at mine and I will look at yours.
I am constantly pushing my members to build lists, membership sites ect any form of actual business building they can and not just depend on cash prizes, contests and TE comish.
The commish is a lil extra we offer them so they will help us promote our site which in turn brings in more members for us and more viewers for them
But I wish I could just STOP all the cash personally. I dont think surfers realize the cash we give away if we give too much can make our TEs barely support themselves if we are careful with it.
So we are kinda in the same boat as Jon been there done that and paying the price trying to turn it back to what its supposed to be BUSINESS ADVERTISING!
Thanks Tim Great Post and Thanks Jon Awesome Input as always
Kaye
Ooooh Tim What a Great Subject!! Once again you have gotten Everyone Talking!!
I have only been surfing a short time but I have found that when you surf more than 1 or 2 at a time not only do you Not see what is advertised but you end up wasting a lot of credits on some exchanges where the people are only there for cash. I have dumped from my surfing lists those sites where the members only seem to surf for cash and not to actually check out the sites.
Huge Topic and lots to say and or think about but really I agree with all of you and see that the internet will continue to change and grow as we move forward in our businesses. One thing is for sure that traffic exchanges will be around for many years to come with or without the broke or rich mindset from the members. That being the case that just tells us one thing in my opinion.. MONEY TO BE MADE> :>
Our Masterminds Group Creator-
Cory Crabb
Just had to post this since i got it today and its on this subject. it came from one of my members I will take out the 2 TEs they mentioned just cause I dont want to upset anyone.
“why don’t u add daily surf rewards like this: 0.30$/1000 just like xxxx and xxxx already have!?”
This was my reply
“we have something similar its called Active Surfers Bonus, However we are not a Paid To Click site so we only put cash in it on occasion. Every day anyone who surfs can choose an Active Surfers Bonus of Credits, or Banners or Texts and when we have cash in it they have that choice as well.
Not to be rude but Volcano Hits is a Traffic Exchange and is here for the members to exchange traffic. The object of internet marketing is for you to build a business and promote it to make money. If we keep cash up all the time members will only surf for the cash and not even bother looking at the ads at all and that would be unfair to those who take their online business seriously.
For reference you should read Tim Lindens Blog he owns Startxchange one of the biggest TEs there is. He just put up a post about cash surfing yesterday, heres the link to it for you.
(Call me Old Fashioned.. Even though I’m 24..)”
Yep I sent him right here to your blog Tim and this post..LOL.
But as you can see this is the problem because I refuse to become a PTC site my numbers stay low as those surfers at surfing the ones that do pay to surf.
I know we shouldnt want those members but to be honest if the cash surfing hadnt started dont you think these same people would still be surfing for the right reasons?
And yes Jackie n Nancy and the rest of you Team surfing is just as bad. I used to use a couple sites and when they added team surfing suddenly my credits got burnt up really really fast and I stopped getting results at those sites. I stopped using them and decided I would never put Team Surfing On Volcano.
Ok back to my vacation in california
Have a great day everyone
Krazy Kaye
I totally agree, maybe I’m old fashioned too. I would rather use the credits and promote than to let them sit idle. This generation seems to want instant everything. The cash will some if you promote. Not only that, but these surfers are missing out on some great opportunities to make some real cash.
The thing is people are performing a service by viewing pages. If, for example you perform a rather basic service and like serving food to someone at a restaurant not only is insulting not to be paid for that service, but if someone does not leave a tip or a low tip they are considered cheap. Think of it as someone leaving a business card and maybe a conversation about how business is in place of a tip. It a lot ways that is what it is like to not get paid for your surfing, or even getting small cash incentives.
However, if someone is performing the service of viewing websites it is supposed to be consider a job that is done just for fun, or a social networking sort of thing; i.e. a hobby. It should not be sacrilegious to actually want cash for your work, after all that is the whole thing that sets a business apart from a hobby is whether they doing it to be profitable. I mean if you want it to be just a hobby then say that, but if it is a business then there is supposed be cash flow, whether that comes from the top level of the exchange or from the secondary level of sales resultant from the advertising in the exchange. Either, way it should be possible to translate it in to cash value, not because cash is valuable in and of its self, but because cash is a way of gauging and comparing value in society.
However, if it is supposed to be just a networking and ideas exchange, then the dilemma is they are too time consuming, and there is not enough interaction time compared to viewing time. Facebook and Twitter work much better for that anyway.
The difficulty with small businesses using exchanges is sure they have low advertising budgets, but what they also have low amounts of is time, so they do not have time to surf much. The majority of ones that actually have a lot of time to surf are the ones without the business, or who are doing the surfing as the business. So if you don’t want those types don’t encourage things like surfing marathons, and anything that is high volume viewing.
Accordingly, the question should not be why should people be paid for their service, but rather how can we make this service more valuable so that if we are paying people the service is actually providing something of value all the way around whether that be cash or advertising, and if the advertising is really that valuable it shouldn’t be that hard to put a decent cash value on it.
I do think from what you have said of Sweeva it sounds like it is upping the value of the traffic exchanged, and that is definitely a step in the right direction. Although, again the problem should not be with paying the cash, but how to make the service of viewing web pages actually valuable enough all the way around, in order to make it worthwhile and worthy of cash. Currently, it seems like the ones who are most successful do not actually do the viewing much, but have the large budgets to spend on setting up splash pages, and sales letters, and highly targeted pages anyway. But, they still depend on the people viewing the pages for peanuts that are not making much. It almost seems like making a living using traffic excahnges is akin to professional sports or acting; the ones at the top do pretty well, but the vast majority must to do it mostly for the love of the game i.e. as a hobby.
I think Jonathan negated his entire post in the first sentence. Maybe understanding what a traffic exchange is should be top of his list.
People surfing are providing a service? Novel concept but way off the mark.
I am not sure what definition of service you have, but a service doesn’t have to be some complex thing being delivered. As far as I can tell it just has to benefit another. [noun] work done by one person or group that benefits another; “budget separately for goods and services”.
If traffic exchanges are only facilitating a means of exchange between one another, than that would have to exclude anyone paying to have their pages viewed more times, because as soon as you include any page views that are not directly exchanged as a 1 for 1, but paid for to the traffic exchange it ceases to be a simple exchange, and you have the dynamic of then needing someone to provide the service of viewing, without having that directly reciprocated.
I would agree that if there was no one paying to the traffic exchanges for views then there would be not reason to pay money out, but as it is most exchanges provide a way whereby someone can side step a direct exchange and pay a monetary value to the exchange for a page view instead of simply trading a page view so cash has been introduced to the system and this is owners wanting to keep all the cash on the inside, instead being willing to pay something back out.
Have to say I really don’t follow your logic Jonathan. Someone running a TE is operating a business and they do it to make a profit after covering all their costs.
To say they have some kind of obligation to pay you for using their service is bizarre. Would you expect a newspaper to pay you for reading their ads or a TV station to pay you for watching the commercials? After all, they made money from selling those ads so your logic says that they should share that with you.
Honestly, I do think cable companies and such are double dipping. You pay them to watch TV and then they serve you ads, seems like if you are paying them you should get the TV without the ads. Also the increasing intolerance towards double dipping is actually one of the prime reasons why newspapers are going under because they can no longer count on that three tier model of subscriptions, advertising, and newsstand sale, and must compete with the online blog markets, in which there is no subscription or newsstand revenue. If I ask for people to subscribe to my website for anything more than free then people think I am crazy, because there is this expectation that the content should be free.
Cable companies are actually considered a natural monopoly or government sanctioned monopoly in many places. They get away with their schemes because they kick so much back to the government (so they do pay us, we just don’t see the money because of government waste): “The theory of natural monopoly holds that “because of structural conditions that exist in certain industries, competition between firms cannot endure; and whenever these conditions exist, it is inevitable that only one firm will survive.” Thus, regulation is necessary to dilute the ill-effects of the monopoly” http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa034.html. So cable companies have gotten away with this double dipping due to poor governement controls. Newspapers on the other hand have not gotten away with it because of the first amendment protections, and the fact that they do not have to build infrastructure all through public land.
Notwithstanding media models, I cannot see a good reason why the concern for profitability should be bias towards the traffic exchange owners, and not the users. What about the business owners spending their precious time surfing, and other say independent contractors working with these tools just trying to make a living. It is not all just a recreational or entertainment service, it is supposed to be as the name applies an exchange and that is how it is marketed too, towards business. It seems like with the current setup the actual monetary value of compensation is so low that only the poor third world countries are seeing any real value in surfing, and the business owner’s only real avenue of profitable in a traffic exchange is taking advantage of the hobbyists and third world users by buying impressions paying for privileged ratios.
The other difference with the traffic exchanges is that they are basically all ads, so they have to compensate viewer for it somehow. At the very least tv, newspaper, radio, and even blogs in theory supplement their ads with content. Traffic exchanges generally supplement their ads with more ads, or maybe at the most a little game or chat here and there, but that’s something you could easily do elsewhere. So the only motivation for using a traffic exchanges is compensation, whether that be and exchange of views or an exchange of money. My argument, is simply that if they are going to claim that the views you are getting are so valuable, then they ought to allow that to be exchangeable for a monetary value, and essentially put their money where their mouth is.
Jonathan, interesting as your arguments are I think they are better suited to a forum like NetMarketingForum where the discussion can open out and involve more people’s viewpoints.
Unfortunately this particular blog posting has been superceded by others and is not really current.
Take this to a forum and we can really have a good discussion.
Yeah its funny I never intended to get into it to that level. I just think time is so valuable and it is so sad that in our society daily life increasingly means a bombardment with advertising of all sorts and buy this buy that. I know people have to make a living and all, but I just wish there was a way to do away with or cut back with so much of this advertising that is modern life, or at least to gain more of value from it.
I can see the pros and cons on both sides of this issue. People surfing on traffic exchanges are either going to pay attention to and read ads or they are not. I think it’s that simple. Whether it’s for cash or credits, I’m afraid there are a lot of surfers that are there for one or the other and truly do ignore the ads. I put a lot of work into my splash pages and I know they do work, but I also know there are many eyes that just keep right on going. I do believe that owners of exchanges have to look at various avenues and use what works best for them. No, I do not believe you should offer cash if it’s going to take money out of your pocket. But if your site is making money I don’t see the problem. I doubt I would surf 52 hrs straight on any site.
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