Catching Cheaters With Bonus Pages
First off, I will say I was surfing Lords-Of-Traffic to find the famous bonus page that catches cheaters. I got to the page, took a screenshot, and somehow closed all the windows and lost it. So pretend there is a screenshot of it here today, as I’m no power surfer and just couldn’t bare to surf any longer!
Today I wanted to talk a bit about traffic exchange security. It’s been on my mind for a long time, and I periodically mention things. There’s no suprise that many owners subscribe here, and many surfers alike. I’ll try to keep them in between things that surfers will enjoy, that way you don’t get bored!
Do Bonus Pages Really Catch Cheaters?
Ah, the magic question! Well.. It depends! Of course I was going to say that right? Well prize pages can help you find cheaters, or people who aren’t paying attention, or neither. It really depends on the way it’s setup and if it’s a key part of the security system in an exchange. You don’t have to use it as a security device, and I wouldn’t recommend it being your only device, but it is one aspect of catching cheaters.
Random vs Count Bonus Pages
It’s no surprise that if the bonus page comes up randomly, it’ll be a little more difficult to bypass if used to detect cheaters. And if you are trying to find lazy people (who don’t look at the ads), having it load every 100 pages only makes it easeir for them to ignore the pages being shown.
Static vs Dynamic
Similarly if the actual URL to the prize page is static, ie: winner.php, it’s easier to detect from a bot surfing standpoint. It really isn’t difficult to write a script that checks if the site being advertised is winner.php, and to load the page up and click any links or submit any buttons. So if you are using it to detect cheaters, you need to have the URL dynamically change (or at the very least, change it once a week or something and check to see if any accounts all of a sudden spike in missing it, showing they had it programmed to load it)
Single Button vs Multiple Buttons vs Captcha
Just like the surfbar, having a prize page with one button to click or one form to submit is easy to cheat. No, really, it is. Having multiple buttons or a captcha makes it much more difficult. And again, make these links dynamic not static! If the link or form is the same every time, well then you might as well not even have it!
Inside the Surfbar, or Outside the Surfbar
Another thing to consider is where the page is displayed. If it’s shown as if it was a page being advertised you’ll catch lazy people and cheaters. If the surfbar redirects to it without the surfbar being displayed, you’ll catch cheaters because you KNOW they couldn’t continue surfing without clicking. And if they keep trying to click when nothing is there, well hmm, they must not be human! (or maybe, shouldn’t be surfing anyways =P)
Word of Caution
Using these kinds of things to detect cheaters, you should ALWAYS do it based on a percentage not number. If someone surfs 1,000 pages a day, and another 100, the first person should be allowed more mistakes than the second. Humans make mistakes! In fact, you could probably catch cheaters too by checking who doesn’t make a mistake ;-)
Your thoughts please..
So there are people out there who don’t take my word for it, they think I’m all fluff. Should I start posting actual code examples of how to cheat? Or should I keep it to myself and just go on watching people spend all their time and energy on exchanges who lack security, knowing that I’m losing customers over a false sense of security?
October 10th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I think it’s silly and almost dangerous to try to make your site cheat proof. That attracts the people that CAN cheat and do harm and will make your life and your members life a nightmare.
Here’s what I do.
I find em, I delete them.
I don’t make a big deal about it. I don’t write articles about how I’m here to rid the net of abuse. I just deal with it behind the scenes.
If any exchange tells you they are cheat proof, they are lying.
The best way to handle the problem, is know it exists and deal with it behind the scenes.
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..Issue 234 - There’s Gold In Them Numbers
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October 10th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I liked your article on Catching Cheaters With Bonus Pages. The paragraph on “Word of Caution” says that people are human and make mistakes while surfing, thank you. Now I don’t feel all alone.
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October 11th, 2008 at 10:37 am
I don’t cheat, but I do surf multiple windows when I can. Sometimes I read a page and then move on and too quickly hit the button. Many times all I can do is say..What I bummer-I just missed my BONUS!!!
I do like bonus pages, random or otherwise!
Mariannes lastest blog post..Multi-media course on Blogging
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wisgrandma Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I don’t cheat either, but also surf more multi-sites - you have to - and there are a few sites that reward you for doing that WINK
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wisgrandma Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Same here - you have to - otherwise you can’t get enough credits to keep your ads out there 24/7. There are some sites that even reward you for doing that (WINK)
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October 11th, 2008 at 10:51 am
I use bonus/prize pages more to keep people surfing, so they want to see what they can win next, hopefully it keeps them looking at the site for the prize pages. It does not come up randomly, but I do change how many pages surfed before it comes up.
I think if the site is to anti-cheat, it will bother the other people surfing. If I have someone who I think is cheating, I look at the pages surfed. If they are averaging 240 pages an hour with a 15 second timer for 12 hours, I am sure they aren’t being honest.
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October 11th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Members get signups from lot, they dont get signups from startxchange.
I spent 140000 credits at sx, got 3 signups, got hundreds form spalsh at the same time, so Linden, think its time to let lot go-)
Also people can buy bots from chineese and french programmers. Cost $15 and can bot surf all exchanges, and i mean all Linden-)
Most of the botsurfers use the bots when they are not online because they go slower and dont earn so many credits as they earn while they manually surf.
Linden, try to increase your security first before you go on lot again.
I was asking a exchange owner if he log the members that dont click the bonuslinks? he said no because it save him credits. So if that is the attitude for most of the exchange owners, then we have lost.
Kjell
Kjell
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:04 am
It’s great to hear that I’m not the only one who screws up and passes the bonus pages sometimes! I always look at other ads (the premise of a traffic EXCHANGE) but then I’ll automatically click to the next site seeing the bonus pass by and thinking…IDIOT - YOU MISSED IT!
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Kjell Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Tom, its not that a member miss one bonuspage that is the problem, is the members that are surfing thousands of sites and never click one bonuslink that may be the cheaters, or maybe not “Pay attention”-)
Kjell
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:04 am
I am amazed at your knowledge on
this subject, can I get those codes? just kidding! I don’t know how to cheat
and can hardly surf more than one exchange at a time due to bug via:
cyberdefender (details upon request)
but I must agree with Jon to a degree,
why not just bust their A** behind the scene and blacklist them with all the exchanges. use a cheat page but keep
the trap open in silence. I enjoy the knowledge I receive from all the ads on the exchanges, there are many ways to advertise, some good , some bad. while surfing you can see both and get great ideas on how to do it the right way.
Great Post Tim, Keep up the good work. Tim
Timothy Millars lastest blog post..Blogging for Traffic?
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Hmmm…I wonder what kind of web pages the cheaters advertise. Are they promoting reputable programs or something else? Surely the owners of reputable programs would want to know is cheating, too. That kind of behavior is worse than spam (IMHO).
Sharon from Mississippis lastest blog post..Are YOU Prepared? Ask Your Heart …
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I have caught several exchange owners for cheating, so its all kind of people who do that. They cheat because they earn credits without surfing.
Kjell
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NJS Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Hell to exchange owners who are cheating (if it really happens) - I am not convinced though as I know nothing about it.
NJS
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wisgrandma Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Post them in a blog - the honest people in this world need to know
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:19 am
How about a list of all the TE’s that lack security?
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Members have to find out themself what exchange delever signups or not, does not help if the owners say they have the best exchanges, they just say that to get you to signup.
Track hits is not good enough, you need to track signups. Why track hits if they are worthless, track signups instead, then you will be suprised from the result you get from the exchanges you are using.
Kjell
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wisgrandma Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I agree with you totally - TE’s are a dime a dozen right now and you can’t surf them all but you can find out for yourself the ones that are working. It takes time but can be done.
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:57 am
You know since I have been surfing it just amazes me as to all the dishonest people out there - our morals are gone and that is soooooooo sad. We are all here to make a living, get traffic to our sites and for an ole granny like me - it saddens me to hear and see all this going on. I agree with Jon and they should be taken off behind the scenes - but also think that someone should continue to let us little guys know what is going on. I can’t prove it - but till someone told me about cloaking my links - my commissions had just died and was wondering what I was doing wrong - started cloaking my links and commissions started again - imagine that. So there are lot of dishonest people out there and think that the few honest ones should try and help others - JMO and my 2 cents LOL
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October 11th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Great Post as always. As a power surfer myself (I tend to get at least 100 pages on at least 15 different te’s a day) yesterday maxed out one site and did over 2k on another in addition to my 10 daily’s. I wouldn’t even begin to know how to cheat however I may have upto 8 different sites open at once which sometimes makes it difficult to catch the bonus’s especially the urls in thesurfbar. In addition I only have a 15″ monitor so I have to use a higher res in order to see the sites which makes the tiny writing on the urls hard to see. Just a side note to all the te owners who read this as a variable newb to this business and someone who is constantly looking for new opportunities and ways to “do it right” It gets very depressing looking at the same person’s (very popular and well known te owner) ad’s over and over. My last experience which made me turn off the te after only 50 sites was watching this same person’s ad 42 outta 50 times so much for the site rotation.
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wisgrandma Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
OHHHHHHH, I totally agree with you and I myself surf that 10-15 sites daily. I also have many solo ads that I read each day for credit - so being that busy - I also miss the bonus pages also - but then sometimes it’s just my bad luck - ex - it took me 10 times before I finally picked the right egg lololol
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October 11th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Anti-cheat is over rated.
Every exchange that is worth surfing is worth cheating. But, still effective! Cheating is a non-issue. I would imagine the higher an exchange ranks, the more it gets cheated on a regular basis. But still ranks high!
But hey, Kjell, seriously, what’s with the hate-fest?
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October 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
If you can catch the cheaters it makes it better for the rest of us non-cheaters out here in surf land that sit and manually surf the sites we are on.
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October 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
When big exchanges dont delever today, then they have members that dont “Pay attention”
Am not upset at all, just telling that sx is not worth using for me because it does not give me anything.
Exchange owners impress their members by sending some huge stats and everything, but are those stats worth anything?
Nope, they just try to manipulate their members to beleve that their exchange are the best by sending them impressive stats.
Signups matter, not what Jon,Tim,Kjell say.
For me sx,ilh,akh,hit2hit worthless for me, tera,ts25,Splash,Royalsurf,hovertraffic the exchanges i get most signups from. When there are sooo big diffrence were i promote, then there must be something wrong.
Some should start a program. Get 10000 credits on 20 exchanges and track were they get most signups, think they will be suprised over the results-)
Kjell
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Sharon from Mississippi Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
TrafficHoopla does that now….
I realize, of course that mentioning TH here might open up a whole ‘nother can o’ worms lol. :)
Love more. Fear Less!
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Kaye Towne Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I am suprised that you seem to have I results from sites I am seeing great results from. Hit2Hit for example …started as a free member then upgraded and less than 24 hours later had a sign up and a comission there…I am still new to this but reading and learning as much as I can as I go…and still looking to see where my best results are…maybe it has to do with what we are looking for to start with and with how the ads or pages are written that we are using.
Just a thought anyway.
Kaye Towne
Kaye Townes lastest blog post..Splash Pages
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October 11th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
ILH is worthless for you Kjell? Noted.
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..Issue 234 - There’s Gold In Them Numbers
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Kjell Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Sorry my bad english, when i said worthless i ment its no good for me to surf there because it does not give me anything.
Am testing and surfing most of the exchanges and see were the members are coming from.
Its effective surfing
Kjell
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October 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Can’t we all just get along? anybody that is not tracking their results from exchange to exchange should not be surfing any of them. But the ads you run may have a lot to do with your results, maybe more than the exchange itself. Track both separately and see if your results are any different. Research,Research, Surf,Surf,Surf. Track em all, shoot the bad guy’s . Tim “The Leprechaun”
Timothy Millars lastest blog post..Blogging for Traffic?
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October 11th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Cheating is a big issue. TS25 had a big problem with cheaters last month. They ate everybody’s credits and we had to look at their ads. As soon as TS cleaned them out I got 12 sign ups in my next 1400 credits at TS.
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October 11th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Hey Tim great post…Hers some light on Startxchange sign ups for me.
5465/2434 This is just my hompage ad too with 41 tracked sign ups. Id say that is pretyy f%$#@! good!
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October 11th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
HI,
This is the first time I have ever posted to your blog Tim(I read them all u send me in emails)…But this one upsets me…
As every one well knows ( or should) anti-cheat,,,locks..ect. is only to keep the HONEST out. No matter what any one does to try and protect their property…some one is going to figure out a way to break in!!
So I think we should ALL Know Whom the cheaters are.. this way we will not join their opportunity…If they cheat on a TE they will cheat anywhere!!!
Yes, I also power surf 3Te’s at a time the reason being, most of the sites R 4 another surf site any way…this does not mean I am Lazy. This just gives me the opportunity to show my site.
When I am surfing and get booted off one!!! I will pick another TE to surf.
SX is the BEST TE I have surfed and I think it is funny that Tim has the….to start a conversation like this! WTG Tim… Going To SX and surf some more!!
Thanks,Shirlene
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Jon Olson Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Great post!
I completely agree.
With all the ‘cheat prevention’ all you are doing is annoying the legit surfers.
Very well said!
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..Issue 234 - There’s Gold In Them Numbers
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dave Reply:
October 14th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Hi
W T G billistic55
1st 2 paragraphs, exactly my feelings.
Thanks .
dave
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October 11th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Kjell, where are you surfing? Being that I have tracked results on more than 100 TEs and SX has always been one of the top ten for me…
Ads, exchanges, formats all bear on what results you get. Test and find what works best for you and use it!
I will say that in sign-ups per 1000 hits to my sites that Traffic Swarm has always been the best, mainly (I think) because of the format that they use. But, unless you are an upgraded member those 1000 hits will take you a long time to accumulate. I can get many more sign-ups per week/month from other exchanges where my sites actually get plenty of exposure.
I guess what I’m saying is that there are many variables in determining what exchanges to use.
Just because you’re getting a 5% sign-up rate at one exchange doesn’t necessarily mean that you are getting better results than one where you’re getting a 3% rate. If you are getting 1000 hits per month at the greater rate you acheived 50 new sign-ups that month; but if you are getting 10,000 hits at the other, you received 300 sign-ups. Do the math…Which would you rather have 50 or 300 new sign-ups….
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October 11th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Ok….Here’s my measly 2 cents……At Splash-Wave I have a software installed that kinda helps with the cheater problem. If surfer fails to click the verify page xxx amount of times then surfer is automatically banned and every click thereafter deducts credits from surfers account. The only way to get the account reactivated is to send support ticket to me. I go out of my way to let members know that this verify page is there and tell them to click it.
There is no way to be cheater free. At least no way that I know of but then again I am fairly new to the TE scene and learning more each day. I do not claim to know much at this point but this is just my way to deal with cheating. Maybe it’s right…maybe not….but that’s something else I will learn over time. I do hate to see TE owners bicker at each other though……a house divided against itself shall not stand. Just my humble (and I do mean humble) opinion.
Have A Blessed Day
Jonathan
Owner/Splash-Wave.com
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Sharon from Mississippi Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I like that idea of DEDUCTING credits from an inattentive surfer’s account. It’s a polite way of keeping cheaters (or inattentive surfers) from piling up unearned credits.
We want others to be attentive enough to see our pages. It only makes sense that we as surfers return the favor. (IMHO)
Best Regards,
Sharon (fearlessreader)
Love More. Fear Less!
Sharon from Mississippis lastest blog post..Are YOU Prepared? Ask Your Heart …
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October 11th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
I personally appriciate this info about cheaters as I am considering starting my own TE but feel I dont have enough knowlege yet so this gives me more background that I am craving…which in turn gets me to keep using a TE where I feel I am getting a little something back, ie; free lessons from a TE owner. I do like the security systems being used today however, I do feel some go a bit too far and cause their regular surfers to waiste valuable time reading tiny text or way to many items to find the correct one to click. I am like Mairianne and do surf several sights at once but I do not cheat and I do pay for several but I still surf and yes I miss those bonus pages too. I assumed there was an allowance for human error which it appears there is. I dont know what TE kjell owns but I looking to find out as I dont feel he has his honest surfers best interest in mind at all and it will show and they will leave his site eventually. As someone who is considering owning a TE I do believe it would be in my own best interest to at least try and look out for my surfers…so thank you for the info Linden I will stick with you on this one.
Kaye Towne
Kaye Townes lastest blog post..Splash Pages
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October 11th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I never realized that running a TE was so much work. I guess there’s alot more to it than I thought, alot of technical stuff. I think cheaters should be shot, just a thought. Is cloaking your link really that important? Don’t mean to sound stupid, but I’m just a dumb ‘ol Gerogia boy. I also didn’t realize the fierce rivalry between TE owners. Gotta go now, ILH is having a HENry Hour. ‘Till next time, remember, what goes around, comes around.
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Jon Olson Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Cloaking links? Not really. Tracking your links, absolutely! But more importantly, you want to track all the way through to the thank you page.
Big huge massive topic, plenty of talk about it in Affiliate Funnel and SWAT Traffic Training seminars =)
And no question is stupid, it’s GREAT that so many people are coming and reading this blog. Well done to all of you and to Tim for bringing traffic exchanges into the light much more.
And you win a prize for mentioning HENry Hours at I Love Hits. Check your account when you get a chance =)
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..Issue 234 - There’s Gold In Them Numbers
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James Vest Reply:
October 12th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Thanks for the prize, Jon.
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October 11th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Well I sure do know now that I have a lot to learn after reading all the comments. I am new to online marketing and am trying to encompass all that I can as I go along….read, read, read..and that it includes my super surfing–yes all five of them..I would not think of cheating …don’t want these websites to cheat me…what the heck is wrong with being honest?
I wish values could come back into the big picture for EVeryone.
Good info on your blog, Tim.
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October 11th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
The problem with Traffic Lords cheat page has to do with the hover method as well. I accidentally went past one of those pages simply because my cursor just happened to be over the hover button when the page came up. I saw it go by but could not retrieve my error.
At least on other pages you have a chance to correct your mistake.
Don’t get me wrong I love Lords of Traffic I am just being more careful where I leave my cursor.
Nick
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October 11th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Dear Tim,
Looks like you hit on a great subject that interests many people. I have one of the oldest tcn scripts and I thank you for the no cheat work you did on this old script.
I for one would like to here more on this subject because from your script work it is very obvious that you know a lot about protecting traffic exchanges.
The idea that you do not get sign ups from your or any TE can be a product of the time of year, the quality of the splash or even the way you present the splash. Ex. if you have the same splash listed 2,3 or 4 times and supply credits to each you will get better results than just listing that splash just once. Also the time of the week can have an effect. Also the TE can very do to clients that use it. The colors used can also have an effect. And also the product advertised. So before I would claim any TE does not work I would look at my strategy first. Also, there are a lot of users out there that lack focus in there advertising. I cringe at the number of people that use rotators which totally destroys focus [unless they are filled with ADs advertising the same product]. This then is the reason many do not get results. To blame startxchange for no results is not what I would do. The amount of advertising can in fact be too little or too much, thus wasting efforts. In other words it is the strategy and tactics that cause the most harm to your efforts.
Thanks
warren
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Kaye Towne Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Thank you Warren you explanned what I was thinking in much better detail. I will give an example I have one program I signed up with as a side thingy only (paid emails) I was not taking it serious at all and had no intention of pursueing it to much. I got a bug one day and decided to put up a banner for it on a couple of the TEs …well the only banner they have is terrible (to me) it flashes alot and hurts my eyes and I thought OMG no one will click on this thing…anyway I put it up and it started getting clicks on it so I added it to a couple others…and now I have to consider paying to be a member of this site so I can get my comissions cause I have gotten 7 referrals this week on it..LOL…and I really thought no one would touch it…LOL that just goes to show that what may appeal to you personally may not appeal to someone else…so even though you think your stuff looks awsome it may be too much or too little or whatever to another. So always look to your own strategy first and try different ones for the same programs…today I started putting up the same site in text links but with different text just to see what gets peoples attention. Try something different once in a while and dont flood the market with any one thing because people tend to run from those, I know I do. Instead use a steady stream of a few a day and eventually that person will see it 100 times and on 101 they click and try it. Reliability and sticking with your basic plan works best for me.
Kaye Towne
Kaye Townes lastest blog post..Splash Pages
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October 11th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Wow Tim,
You sure got Kjell going
on this one! He is like a pitbull, just will
not give up until someone tells him he
is right. Nice post Warren. Tim
Timothy Millars lastest blog post..Blogging for Traffic?
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Sharon from Mississippi Reply:
October 11th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Let’s try this, Timothy:
Hey, Kjell: You’re RIGHT!!!
Hey, Tim: You’re RIGHT!!!
Can we all get along now?
(Smiling gently…)
Love more. Fear Less! :)
Sharon from Mississippis lastest blog post..Are YOU Prepared? Ask Your Heart …
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October 12th, 2008 at 12:34 am
Sorry, Tim. You have a great TE also.
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October 12th, 2008 at 9:49 am
As I’ve said before, if you offer people $10 into their paypal account just for signing up for your list that Ad Will Work. If you ran that ad in all the TE’s then you would really see which TE’s are best for sign ups. And logically if a big TE produces little from that ad you’d have to conclude something is seriously wrong at that TE and they have problems including probably many cheaters.
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October 12th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Hi, I have just read through all these comments and they have brought up several concerns and issues that I have been having. I do not own any TE’s so this is strictly from a customers point of view. I surf on just about every TE mentioned during this conversation.
I have been working online now for just about 2 years so I do not consider myself a newbie, but I also do not consider myself an experienced IM. I consistently surf between 10-15 exchanges weekly. I usually do 6-8 daily with 3-4 open tabs. I feel that this gives me enough time to see the ad and not only determine if it is something I am interested in but also am I doing justice because I hope to get the same respect when my ads are being looked at.
I’ll be honest I usually surf on certain days for different TE’s as I typically surf on the TE’s that are doing the specials that day such as 20% increase that day ect.
However, here is my dilemma I have not upgraded at a single TE yet as I have been getting mixed results at all the exchanges. I have been tracking however, have only been doing it for a couple of months now as that is when I had made a decision to use TE’s as part of my campaign because if you do it correctly it is very time consuming. I do not think anyone can make any statement about any TE unless they have tracked them for a minimum of 6 months as we all know that different months have different users now using them. IE: vacations or working on a new project that is time consuming.
I would like to upgrade at several of the TE’s so I can use my time more beneficial to me such as creating blogs or articles to assist me with my traffic as well. However, I am on a limited budget still as even though I am making a living online and I am lucky enough to be able to stay home to do it I am just making enough to get by not at the point where I would like to be (which I would be perfectly happy with a lower 6 figure yearly income). Therefore, until I am positive which TE’s have the most cheaters or doing the least to stop cheaters than I can not throw away my money it is bad enough that I am already possibly wasting my time.
My personal opinion (for what ever that is worth)LOL is that you all focus on helping each other and not only deleting accounts of cheaters but also set up a specific blog and list them out therefore, they can not just run to another TE.
In addition and I believe it was Sharon who came up with this concept have mystery surfers to help track and work with all the owners of the TE’s. For example if the mystery surfer is aware of the cheaters they can specifically watch for them on other TE’s as well.
If all the owners work together on this concept then you can either pay some surfers, which would not hurt anyone particular TE owner as you would all be splitting up the bill or as I eluded to in another blog that was similar topic to this is to do the barter system. Another words, have certain surfers do the grunt work for you all and then like myself, as we build up a working relationship then you all could act as JV’s to promote that particular surfers product or website. This could then be a win-win situation for everyone.
Lastly, I just wanted to thank everyone who participated in this conversation as it did demonstrate many different angles/ideas for what seems to be a worsening situation not only for the TE owners but also for the legitimate surfer who is attempting to get traffic for themselves.
Considering many of you probably do not know me very well you may know my call name as I use it everywhere and that is Just A Regular Guy.
Until next time,
Rich T. AKA Just A Regular Guy
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Jon Olson Reply:
October 12th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Thanks Rich for the feedback. We have a private owners forum at Net Marketing Forum where we share information between each other for who is cheating. Always trying to educate each other and look out for each other, even though at times it looks like we argue a lot lol
Jon Olsons lastest blog post..Issue 234 - There’s Gold In Them Numbers
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October 12th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
You have to do both - cloaking and tracking - and it amazing how many hits you have to get to get ONE referral or one shopper. SOOOOOOOOO you have to take this serious and surf the sites that are working for you.
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October 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I still think that you have to cloak and track - and you have to be serious about your surfing - it takes alot of hits to get one referral or buyer to your site - TE’s are not get rich sites - they are like the billboards along the interstate - you now how many times people got to drive back before you get someone to actually stop and click, Just don’t give up and keep surfing tha sites that are working for you. Great discussion Tim - keep up the good work.
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October 13th, 2008 at 1:34 am
I agree with Tim wholeheartedly. As a TE owner myself (while I believe in deleting cheaters) I also believe in having cheat deterrents in all of them. (I’m huge n anti-cheat) I don’t believe announcing having those features is necessary per se and could possibly invite cheaters to prey, but then again if many exchanges don’t have cheat deterrents then it is also a USP (unique selling proposition) to state YOU have it (as Tim does and I do). Remember, however, that Tim and I both understand the programming of these scripts and we are a bit biased as to how they operate and others might not see the importance as we do. I for one think that every single TE should have the best anti-cheat programming available and I think we should tout that to the world that we have it… I mean..bring on the cheaters..it just means we have to program better..right?
And no, no script is invinsable, but there are better scripts than others and if you do alot of tracking you can see where some of your wasted credits are going and at what time of the day, etc.
And yes, there is a TE owners forum at Jon’s NMF where we can alert everyone if we find a cheater to delete, but to me…I want to secure my TEs as much as possible so they don’t get in there in the first place. And, I want my users/customers knowing that I’m doing everything possible to keep them out. (which I do)
And if that means it’s a tougher interface or otherwise, at least I know I’m protecting my customers at the ’sitepoint’ as opposed to waiting for support folks to manually delete the cheaters which could mean thousands of credits in as little as 30 minutes.
Just my 2 cents..
Jen
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October 13th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
hi Tim,
First thanks for a very interesting article :)
I do one question…
I don’t understand the paragraph, “Inside the Surfbar, or Outside the Surfbar”.
If you have time could you explain a little more please?
best wishes
Thom
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October 14th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Anti cheat methods can irritate many surfers. Depending what they are. anything that puts credits in a surfers account will not bother a surfer. However the human code is the one thing that does not stop cheaters using dithering software. I used dithering software while doing work for the DOE in the USA and it can read hard to read graphic displays of letters and numbers much better than the human reader. I can see using the human code as a selling point, IE. our surf site has less cheating, when using single surf button tech. or hover surf. But in any surf bar that has several buttons or graphics to chose from is much better at stopping cheating.
I have seen some large traffic exchanges use the human code even though they have the multiple surf bar button or graphic. The result is the surfing slowly stops. The daily surfing goes down over time. One example is forevertraffic.com. They used to provide shows at a rate of 35 per day at 18,000 members then at almost 20,000 members this dropped to around 15 per URL. Now they suck up credits at a rate of 100,s per day but they only show 3 to 6 different pages. This shows me that they have been hit with some heavy duty cheating. As a regular surfer at forever traffic I still surf there but I do not use my credits because they would be waisted. I am waiting for the owner to clean up the exchange before I release any credits. I stopped surfing a lot when they first put up the human number as I found it an irritant like many other surfers. What I think went on was this. over time they number of surfers dropped because of the human number it became a big problem for the owner. The surfers started to notice and this aggravated the situation so less and less surfers surfed. The owner somehow boosted the use of credits but not the number of surfers. This could be a few cheaters that were allowed to stay as members just to use credits. Or it could be the owner. Who knows? But what I do know is that when surfing a large traffic exchange you should see a large number of different ADs rather than just a few. I also think an owner has to not sit back and let the technical aspects of a script encurage surfing and cut out cheating. Rather I would surf your own exchange as an owner to keep an eye on what is going on.
Thanks,
warren
[Reply]
October 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Anti cheat methods can irritate many surfers. Depending what they are. anything that puts credits in a surfers account will not bother a surfer. However the human code is the one thing that does not stop cheaters using dithering software. I used dithering software while doing work for the DOE in the USA and it can read hard to read graphic displays of letters and numbers much better than the human reader. I can see using the human code as a selling point, IE. our surf site has less cheating, when using single surf button tech. or hover surf. But in any surf bar that has several buttons or graphics to chose from is much better at stopping cheating.
I have seen some large traffic exchanges use the human code even though they have the multiple surf bar button or graphic. The result is the surfing slowly stops. The daily surfing goes down over time. One example is forevertraffic.com. They used to provide shows at a rate of 35 per day at 18,000 members then at almost 20,000 members this dropped to around 15 per URL. Now they suck up credits at a rate of 100,s per day but they only show 3 to 6 different pages. This shows me that they have been hit with some heavy duty cheating. As a regular surfer at forever traffic I still surf there but I do not use my credits because they would be waisted. I am waiting for the owner to clean up the exchange before I release any credits. I stopped surfing a lot when they first put up the human number as I found it an irritant like many other surfers. What I think went on was this. over time they number of surfers dropped because of the human number it became a big problem for the owner. The surfers started to notice and this aggravated the situation so less and less surfers surfed. The owner somehow boosted the use of credits but not the number of surfers. This could be a few cheaters that were allowed to stay as members just to use credits. Or it could be the owner. Who knows? But what I do know is that when surfing a large traffic exchange you should see a large number of different ADs rather than just a few. I also think an owner has to not sit back and let the technical aspects of a script encurage surfing and cut out cheating. Rather I would surf your own exchange as an owner to keep an eye on what is going on.
[Reply]
October 17th, 2008 at 11:38 am
What a lot of B………..
Saying an exchange does not work for them is a load of poo
The exchange does not work for the page you are using, That is where you need to change the page you promote there.
99% of the time its not the people in the exchange or the traffic that is a problem its what your promoting.
The other thing that needs to be learnt is that exchange users are not stupid. If you slate or dont get on with certian owners publically then their members who read it will prob not join your exchange.
I love startxchange and if a owner of a exchange slates startx with something like it dont work then im very unlikely going to join or use their exchange as it just shows that person knows absolutely nothing.
Its all about what and how you promote, One page or offer may not be right for one place and yet may work wonders in others, Try adapting adverts to suit the market, thats what marketing is :)
Steve Aylings lastest blog post..I Will Give You 500 Hits For Joining Something You Should Be Joining Anyway
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